0202 A – Bought on Ebay - Long Lost Even-Numbered Comp Ferrari Found

The guy traded a refrigerator for the engine 0202A in the 60's

Engine is in his office, not a car!

 

Don't people know that they're not entitled to archeological finds? They need to be returned to their origin! Bloody grave robbers.


Onno

 

Get over it. He owns it, if Tom or anybody else wants it they are going to have to buy it.

It's like Father Guido Sarduchi said in his famous SNL skit "Issa supplya and deman"...

Not all cars get restored because potentially it costs more to restore them than they are worth. Tom, to his credit got the chassis for a reasonable price. He will have a very valuable car when he finishes it, the person who has the engine is likely factoring this in and that will determine the price he ends up selling the engine. That assumes that he wants to sell the engine. Maybe he just likes looking at it and wants to keep it. If that's the case it may cost Tom more to buy the engine than it is worth to him and in that case the car will either sit or won't get its' original engine.

 

I am willing to pay asking price BTW.
Multitudes of hundreds of thousand of dollars, not for the faint of heart.

I do not want or expect the engine for free. I do have other options though. I will pay market.
Engine is aparts and currently in two locations, need all the bits if I am paying retail.
Silly things like bearing caps and important specialty hardware.
I have seen the major castings. It is the real deal !

 

I remember someone who had a Fiat 8V motor and wanted $70,000 for it. He eventually sold it for about $40,000 because he needed the money. (This was 15 years ago)

Now he is PO'ed because the motor is probably worth in excess of $250,000 (based on the fact a Siata 208 recent sold for just under a million dolllars).

It's been my experience that there is very little in this world that people won't sell for a price...

 

You know, I was afraid that the vintage section didn't have a sense of humour. Glad to see you have proved me wrong. Who needs to get over it, I wonder? Jeez.


Onno

 

The « factory records, courtesy Marcel Massini » (post #222) you are reffering to is questionable on some points. By the way this document is not recent but dates from the Gaetano Florini times. Let’s review briefly these 1952 340s, 3 of which were at Le Mans.

0174 – Vignale – Cornacchia. This is the coupé shown on the « reliable source of information » (post #221). A road car sold to Genoa via Cornacchia in February 1952. long before Le Mans therefore.

0196 – ‘’ ‘’ – P Scotti. Nothing of a cab. Vignale but a spyder. Formerly : Taruffi/Mille Miglia, Daetwyler @ Bern, Rosier/Trintignant @ Le Mans #15, Bracco @ Targa Florio. Later fitted with the Vignale coupé from Sparken’s Aston Martin DB3. Sir Anthony Bamford had dit rebodied by DK Eng. with a replica of the original Vignale spyder.

0202 – ‘’ ‘’ – E. McAfee – Rosso Scuro. Vignale coupé, not spyder. Rosso Scuro (Maroon) fits with no spyder but the coupé sold to E. McAfee (after Le Mans) and raced by Gregory. Evidently it has nothing to do with 0174 above. Chassis assembly form attached shows 0202 was new for Le Mans. Couldn't be #15 then but #14 for Simon/Vincent. A few other races in France with Vincent and Marchand. Then revised, repainted maroon and sold by Ferrari through E. McAfee. Raced by Gregory. This is the car that ended with a Devin spyder plastic body.

0204 – " " - Kimberly. The Chinetti/Lucas note (the late Florini's hand) refers to this car (not to 0202) which was the Le Mans #12 before being sold to Jim Kimberly.

0206 – Castoldi – motore per motoscafo. An engine sold to Castoldi for his racing boat. Couldn’t be at Le Mans.

0212 – Vignale – Princ. Nam Phuong. A road going Vignale coupé sold to the family of Bao Daï.

All in all, the « reliable source of information» of post #221 repeated the confusion « installed » by Marcel Massini’s ‘Ferrari by Vignale’.

Best wishes.
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3420 mm wheelbase proves that even "factory documents" are not faultless...

 

Yes Tom, it would be a total nonsense to give to 0202A a Vignale spyder body...

 

No one has proven anything to me, yet.

Factory recently confirmed (this year) the body was a spyder.

I am open minded

I do not need an open Ferrari race car, got one, I am a coupe guy anyway.

I will do the right thing.

 

Just because there is nothing in these pages relevant to the issue being discussed. Not even a single mention on the bodywork. This, incidentally, could explain the error on the type of bodywork attributed to 0202 on post #222.

 

Hello Mr. Open to a close car.
For copyright reasons I regret I cannot share a photo taken at the 1952 Targa Florio clearly showing “0196-A” chalked on the rear LH tyre of car #64 which appears without any doubt as the ex-Le Mans Vignale spyder #15.
Same regrets for a color pix reputedly taken at Bergstrom AFB (2.4.1953) and belonging to B. De Boer. It reveals the “Rosso Scuro” paint of your Vignale coupe 0202 in its heyday.

 

But if 0206 was really a boat engine for Castoldi, why factory record show tipo 340 A ??

The Castoldi engine was a tipo 375 with 4493.7 cc...

And Castoldi raced his boat only in 1953. Did it really take one year to make a boat to Castoldi ??

 

Wasn't engine 0206A sold by Symbolic several years ago to France?

 

Is it a marine engine? Or in marine configuration?

 

On the other hand, if 0206A was not originally a marine engine for Castoldi, I doubt that Castoldi bought the engine of the crashed Vignale coupe in the USA in 1953 for his boat the same year.

He must have bought an engine in Europe and probably directly from factory. So, the theory of Antoine about 0206A as an engine only for Castoldi is still interesting.

And may be the tipo 340 engine was later enlarged to 375 ??

 

Same car at Madeira Roadrace 1953 with Gregory.
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No big deal, but Madera (California) is correct....

 

Interesting. So, if 0202 was a closed car and wore #14 with Simon and Vincent, would that car not have been blue (as one would expect with Simon & Vincent) and not Rosso Scurro? I don't have a colour photo, but only this B&W from LM 1952.

When was Mr. Florini's time with Ferrari? Could these documents relate to a current state of affairs (when written) and not 1952? Thus things like 0206A being a boat engine was a reflection of the current state and not as built (with a proper car)?

There are some features on the colour photo from Bergstrom that appear to differ from the photo of #14 at Le Mans. The ovid portholes look unfinished at Le Mans, nicely chromed at Bergstrom, also a trim piece has been added to the side. I'm sure the car was cosmetically beaten after Le Mans, but work like this (and a colour change?) might have resulted from a return to Vignale. Perhaps records exist for that visit and can confirm that 0202A was a closed car?
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I believe it was French blue

I assume that if anyone would actually know the relationship with 202A and Vignale, it would be Marcel.

 

I'd imagine this 340A is a brand new car at the time of this photo. There is a certain feel for this car that comes thru this old, weathered photo. It is almost as if you can feel the ripples in the paintwork and move your head around and catch the sparkle of the wire wheels. I've never seen a more beautiful shot of a Ferrari. Thanks for sharing it.

john