Story of 250 GT Cabriolet s/n 0799

Bruno, what was your impression of Gianni Mennino? Do you think he is a reliable person?

Did you ever receive a purchase contract signed by the Swiss doctor and owner of Ferrari 0799GT mentioned on www.barchetta.cc (text line six) (http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0799GT.250GT.Cabriolet.SI.htm)

 

You really do have reading issues, don't you? He clearly said Swiss [bold]registration[/bold], not title. So where are you getting the European titles from? As you (must) know, most people leave the registration documents in the car. Nor is it hard to obtain a duplicate registration document--all you have to do is represent that the original is missing and provide the license plate number.

Bills of sale can be issued by anyone. They don't mean squat. Would you like one? Or two?

If the US titles were issued on the basis of the bills of sale, or other questionable paperwork, they are hardly ironclad "proofs of ownership"...anything issued on the basis of suspect documentation does not hold up in a court of law, because it is deemed to have been obtained fraudulently.

 

incredible story, many things strange for me
Customs, Interpol, Ferrari dealers, Giorgio Schoen, Scott Rosen, Symbolic motor cars...and nobody see or said nothing to the owner? all seems incredible.

if Interpole keep the claim active, i think there s always a mode to return the car to his owner.

 

Maria,

My contact with Gianni Mennino was many years ago, and for a very short time. He delivered everything he promised.

Ferrari 0799GT was sold with the original Texas title, signed by Peter A. Bowers, as well as service records, and spare keys.

 

I am not a lawyer, but this is the kind of brain teaser that makes me understand why someone would go into Law.

Let me pose this situation, which may or may not apply to the situation discussed here:

Man A has his a "driver" condition car stolen and accepts the insurance payment for it.

Man B has stolen the car and fakes or otherwise obtains what is accepted as a title for it.

Man C buys the car from man B and then spends $200K on a high quality restoration.

When the insurance company finds that man C has the car, they take it back.

But what was stolen and they paid for was a driver condition car, not a concourse winner.

While he would be out the money he paid man B, wouldn't man C be entitled to compensation by the insurance company for adding value to the car?

Thanks,

Jim

 

Interpol?!
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first post in this thread....

 

Ferrari VIN 0799GT was stolen together with three other Ferraris that belong to another owner.

The three other stolen Ferraris are:

* Ferrari 250 GT Spider, Series 2, year of construction 1960, VIN 1893, red color with black leather interior

* Ferrari 365 GT 2 + 2, year of construction 1970, VIN 13811, blue color, with black leather interior

* Ferrari 250 GT/e2 + 2, year of construction 1961, VIN 2925, black color, with cream leather interior

Who knows something about these cars? Where are they located today?

 

Japan's posture of refusing to return stolen vehicles strikes me as being totally unacceptable. What possible justification can they have for that?

I know I'm a hopeless idealist, but one way to get their attention would be for no one to sell to Japan or the other countries that take this stance. Japanese enthusiasts would then pressure their government to change the laws.
Yes, I know that's a dream. No one need respond.

Jim

 

Because the criminals buying the stolen cars control the politicians making the rules. No brainer here.

 

It's not necessarily my position, but Japan is saying:
#1: it's easier to forge ownership papers abroad in order to *claim* a theft, so we won't play that game,
#2: it hurts an innocent buyer to seize a car sold to her
#3: it takes wealth out of Japan to seize/return a stolen car abroad

It's just a different way of looking at the situation. We don't have to agree with it.

 

For starters: 2923, 2925, and 2927 are listed in the Ferrari Life registry as being 1960 models, not 1961.

 

Hilary Raab's "Ferrari Serial Number - Odd" lists the first car of 1961 production as 2387 - several hundred cars before the cars listed above. I don't know what Ferrari Life's source is for their info, but I believe the accuracy of Raab's source books for serial numbers has withstood the tests of time quite well.

 

In Nowak's 'Ferrari - 40 Years on the Road' 2925 is well in the middle of a large batch of cars all listed with 'sold' dates between June & Dec 1961

 

Now when did Ferrari Life become an authority on this matter? These cars were started in July 1961 and completed October 1961. Best wishes, Kare

 

Jim, I believe the person who repaired or restored the car would have a mecahnic's lien on it and could probably recover the costs, plus interest for the $$ expended. The only hitch would be to file the lien in the appropriate spot and have it recorded.

Come to think of it, that may not be a bad idea for anyone who has even the slightest inclination that the title may be fuzzy. That, or move the car to a State with fairly short adverse possession laws, take out ads to trigger the adverse possession statute and wait the proscribed time. As long as the ads are "open and notorious", you wait the right amount of time and otherwise comply, all title issues go away and your best friend is that State's Secretary of State because he or she will be defending that State's law in front of whichever tribunal ultimately hears the case and they may even move to have the car impounded in that State, pending the outcome. Just my .02

 

http://www.wfsb.com/news/17400417/detail.html#

 

WOuld suck to be the Conneticut "owner" of the car. Is there any sort of automotive title insurance available for when you are dealing with such high value classics, or is the last buyer out of luck?

 

4-5 Million bucks????

For a PF Cabriolet????

 

This claim of stolen was a topic some months ago on F-chat. I suspect there are a series of attorneys getting billable hours on this unless the siezure had already been negotiated. Anyone know the rest of this story?

Jeff

 

Well, maybe not QUITE that much....LOL!

Thanks Mr. G.......so that's the end of the "mysterious ad" in a certain magazine.....

It would indeed "s uck to be them"...interesting, the victim's play in not cashing the insurance loss check, otherwise it'd be THEM getting the recovered value windfall......

Pretty car.....probably been restored several times in it's travels!

 

I'd think the seizure would have to be authorized by a Court here, to have the authorities carry out the recovery like this.....DEFINATELY more to the story than the local media realizes, the aggreaved owner should sue his vendor and sell his stroy to the media!

Maybe make a movie, like "the Yellow Rolls Royce"????

 

I have a theory...
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Bernardo,

This is a Series 1 PF Cab., one of 40 and, in my opinion, prettier than a Cal Spider. May not be worth $4M, but it is worth quite a bit!

Regards,

Art S.

PS. Wayne or other mods., can you merge this thread with the other thread on the topic?