Yep. The pile of metal shavings to the left of your lathe is the same size as the pile on the right side.
Me too. Sometimes however you just have to let symmetry go. With the space in the engine bay being as unsymmetrical as it is, (lots of space behind the engine, none in front of it), perhaps this is one of those times.
I took another look at the X manifold lay out....I can get a dead straight shot in the one plane, then about a 3/4" kick in the other to get the runners past each other. The TBs can then be assembled as a set of 12 by sharing one of the blot holes. The injectors clear, the throttle shafts clear, there's room for the fuel rails , throttle plates well over 200mm, and the tops are just under the 350mm length and waiting for a short velocity stack on top to get them to tuned length while still leaving what I think will be an inch or 2 up to the deck lid for the air box (this would need to be confirmed). I'm starting to warm up to it. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm expecting to set up my 575 engine with 12 TBs soon and we're going to test it with varying inlet tract lengths and also varying clearances from the trumpets to the bonnet (hood). I'll post this info as soon as we get it, and it may help you to make choices. It should have happened months ago but the once the racing season started the guy we use gets too busy. His latest thing is 'getting engines ready for Goodwood', but after that the seasons's about over.
Infomation is ALWAYS welcome! I'm looking forward to the dyno number on that thing too....now I'd only been smart enough to go buy a 456 engine (a 575 is not even close to in budget) instead of trying to build my own.....
I know you probably answered this already, but seeing as this thread is a little L O N G, what kind of throttle bodies are those? Shiny Side Up! Bill
And just when I was getting comfortable with it my bubby Vic (the flow guy) asked me if the TBs were going to be big enough to flow properly that far from the head....the answer is no they are not, not close, not far. The TBs are called 46mm because that's what size the throttle plate is, but the outlet bore is 42mm....or about 1mm smaller than what I've already opened the port up to. The manifold is supposed to taper out so back where I'm thinking I want the throttle bodies I'd really like about 49mm....or 7mm bigger than what I have. If that's not bad enough I was also running through the injector math again and I'm not happy there either. The bike they came off was 180 hp, or 45 hp/cylinder. I originall planned for 550 hp 45.8 hp/cyl making these perfect....but I'm now planning for 750hp or 62.5 hp which seems near impossible with these injector. I hate when stuff like this happens I see a dodge neon automatic trans car with a 52mm TB and they are pretty cheap on ebay....I guess I'll get one to have a look at. Anyone else know of anything in the 50mm-52mm range I should have a look at?
5.0 mustangs have a 55mm if I recall correctly. Sorry about your luck, I would have put it together and forgot the math because I hate math. Good thing im not designing the manifold eh? Im wondering how you'll get 750HP naturally aspirated though.
By using 12 55mm mustang TBs is sounds like Goals are easier to mis than hit that's for sure, but I think it's do-able. I've put the info into 2 different software programs and they both spit out the same number. I have very limited experience with the software I have but it did hit Russ's 3.2 just about perfect. Vic's had his software for at least 8 years and easily over 100 dyno'd engines and he fifures 770 +/- 2% if my head flows 150 cfm on his flow bech....which is why sorting out the difference in mine vs his is so important to me. My says 149, his says 137 which will drop the estimate to about 700 hp.
I cant wait to see you make the front header, LMAO! Keep the pics coming, I might have to drop by one day to see this monster in person and ill bring some canadian beer.
Bummer! On the other hand, if you decide to sell them, let me know... 8 of 'em might be cool on a Ford Mustang 302! Shiny Side Up! Bill
You're right...the front headers will be a bugger! I'm thinking I will make 4 headers, 3 tubes each. Then on the front one will come out each side of the engine with the right side going through where the AC compressor once was and the left out over the bell housing. People with beer or wrenches are always welcome I'm amazed every time I see new pictures of your car...every detail is perfect. That is a skill set I simple don't have.
4 headers is a great idea, simplifies things big time. You should have the room too with a 3 tube header around each side rather than the stock location cramming 6 pipes down under the crank. Ill be plugging away on my project this weekend with more pics, its been a long road and I cant express how relieved I am that its nearing the end! I think if you wanted to, you could do what Ive done to mine, its just time and patience but thanks for the kind words.
I was thinking I might set my QV heads up with TBs before I put them for sale....kind of a value added thing and I think it would make them easier to sell if I can promise 320-340 hp to however takes them. The hot Ducati uses 54mm TBs on a 500 cc cylinder to make 70 hp/cylinder....so 52-55 seems like the right size. The suzuki TBs have a throttle plate that's 4mm bigger than the runner opening so that would be a 53mm throttle plate. 55mm seems to be the after market Neon TB, 52 stock so I'm back to neon.
What sort of money would they be (I would need to sort finances first). Also would these suit a Uk car ok or are they set up or for a US car.
I like the 'X' configuration mainly because it looks "factory". If you have the room do it. If worse came to worse you could raise the entire hump in the rear deck slightly to enhance clearance, that is, if the hump is wide enough to cover all 12 TB's. Find a body guy to add a one inch section around the circumference the hump. When all is done I would bet most people wouldn't know the difference in height and even if they did they would assume it was a stock configuration. You get your stock look plus extra room for V-stacks and airbox. You could cannibalize another hump off a wrecked or burned 308 for cheap.........................
I'm pretty sure I have the height. The issue with the hump is the width of it. The 12 is so wide there is no way the end TBs can get into the hump area. The Goldsmith car had the hump widened which I could do if I have to (I wanted to make a light weight deck lid anyway), but I think that I have room under the stock lid because I lowered the engine almost 2".
I'm thinking rebuilt, flowed heads with oversize intakes and matched TBs should be about a $6000 package out right, maybe $4500 and your heads. I don't know of any difference between the US heads and trhe euro heads, I think you would be fine.
I haven't checked this thread in a few days but I saw this and I figured I would mention that 5.0 mustangs use a 60mm tb
Thanks. 60mm is way too big. I ordered a used Neon TB for $35 that should be 52mm. We'll see if it yous like something I can use when it gets here.....then I just need to find 11 more.
I think it would be cool if you had more than one hump, made removable like on a TR, so you could slip one on (for fun) with a cut-out crosswise to showcase some extra long V-stacks, just for a visual impact................
