I guess it's just me... Spoilers | FerrariChat
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I guess it's just me... Spoilers

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by senna21, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,334
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    #1 senna21, Sep 16, 2008
    I watched the race last night (Monday) with a friend as we like to get together to share the good times. Then of course I sign on to FChat this morning to see what the peanut gallery (of which I'm a proud card carrying member) has to say about it. I must admit I'm a bit floored.

    The first thing that floored me was the whining and moaning about bringing back heir Schumacher. :confused: Really? Get over it. He retired, it was his choice. He left you, us or however you want to view it. Breakups are never easy, I know, but this one has been over for quite a while and no one was bemoaning Ferrari's WDC at the beginning of this year. Now suddenly you want the guy who dumped you/us back? I get it, it was really good but it really is time to move on. The truth of the matter is we've got two perfectly good drivers that are at the sharp end of the grid.

    Second, Massa's performance was no better than Kimi's. Actually it was much worse. Massa qualified in 6th and given Hamilton's lowly qualifying position of 15 had the opportunity of the year to grab the championship with both hands. Then Massa gets a break before the race even starts! Bourdais' car stalls on the grid so he picks up a spot, now he's 5th. Race starts and what happens? Well, Hamilton does exactly what Massa should have been doing, storms through the field. Moves it up to second and then drops back down and into 7th by the end of the race. Kimi takes some time as it seems he had a dry setup on his car and once the track started to dry out he moves from his 14th qualifying position to finish 9th. Only 10 seconds behind Massa at the end. He picks up five places and sets fastest lap. Massa on the other hand back pedals one spot back down into 6th. Kubica, Alonso and Heidfield all get past him.

    Still the gap to Hamilton closes, but given the situation at the beginning of the race it shouldn't have closed he should be leading the championship.

    It could have been worse you know. I'm still not sure if Hamilton would have been better off to stay out on the ultra wets for the remainder of the race. Yea, I know they would have been junk by the end of the race but how much slower would they have been? He was in second place and had his team mate behind him to run interference. He certainly couldn’t have caught Vettel, and probably Kubica would have gotten by. Ok, so then he's in 3rd and extends his lead over Massa. Even if Alonso and Heidfield get by, that still puts him in 5th and Massa's down in 7th. He still would have extended out his lead. If he'd taken on inters for his first pit stop it would have been game, set and match Hamilton.

    Third, the pissing and moaning about Hamilton's drive being too aggressive is just pathetic. Every couple of years or so someone trots out the old footage of Villenuve's and Arnoux's wheel to banging wheel battle and then it's post after post of how this is how F1 was and should be! Then when you get some of that you pull a 180 and go on about how poor a driver and sport Hamilton is. Grow a pair and just admit you don't like the guy no matter what he does. He drove a brilliant race and deserves the credit. I was never a fan of Schumacher but I'll be damned if I'll deny him is due. Really disliked the guy but he had some brilliant, brilliant drives and is deserving of all of his titles. I'm also not a fan of Massa but he's also had some brilliant drives this year. Unfortunately this wasn't one of them. If Ferrari's going to win it this year he's our man and although I don't like him he's got my support.

    It seems the trolls on this site are getting greener as the season winds down and it certainly is easier to see who they are.
     
  2. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
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    Steve
    #2 kraftwerk, Sep 16, 2008
    +10000
    Absolutely, A brillant post/thread, so much sense, I'm afraid it will be wasted on here.
     
  3. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 10, 2007
    30,120
    FRA - nice city with a really big airport :)
    #3 DF1, Sep 16, 2008
    No matter what LH does the car (Ferrari) is basically pathetic in the rain. There might be less complaining if it was a car its fans could count on in the rain. As far as LH's drives and aggression - He is aggressive and Felipe was in Hungary. If other drivers bemoan LH then so be it. Thats something for LH to sort out.

    Bias is here because its a Ferrari site. At the end of the day, if LH drives and wins and is not penalized, no matter what the other drivers think so be it. Its just racing. Ferrari need to sort out there wet performance. That matters more to me than LH and how he drives.
     
  4. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    #4 RP, Sep 16, 2008
    Charles, I apprciate your frustration. Passing cars that qualified in the top 4-5 is a lot different than passing cars that qualified 7-14th. Hamilton looked brilliant, but under the circumstances, with the car/tire combination as it is, especially the rain tires, Massa did just as well to finish as he did. I do not want to take anything away from Hamilton, but I do want to give more credit to Massa. I understand Kimi's problem, but trying to explain it here would be a waste of time.

    I have no idea why you did not like Schumacher, I met the guy and he was very charming. Evey public interview was quite good an not arrogant in appearance, unlike Hamilton. I never met Massa except when I physically ran into him in the lobby of the Westin in Indianapolis, but so far in public, his score is much higher in humility than Hamilton's. Public apearance is important. I like Hamilton despite his public personna of late which I do not believe is the real Lewis Hamilton. I do not like McLaren under the guidence of Ron Dennis, nor do I like the myopic attitude of Hamilton's fans. I do not want to belittle Hamilton's driving ability, but in no way at this time would I say he is absolutely the next god of F1. Yet. He has made way too many mistakes so far. I have no problem with his driving although he comes very close to the line of being dangerous. He just seems like a nice kid despite his ignorance in public.

    Hamilton did not change to the correct tires, that is racing, does that not mean he would have won the race, and it does not automatically make him any better than any other driver as you imply. Too many ifs, ands, and buts. Decisions were made and that is the final result.

    I can not comment about anyone of these driver's personalities, I never met Alonso, Hamilton, Massa, or anyone else except Schumacher. So how can I comment about their true personalities?? How can anyone? Charles how can you say you don't like either Massa or Schumacher if you have not met them?

    I have to agree with you about the automatic condemnation of Raikkonen, and the previous crap about Massa. It is ridiculous.
     
  5. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,476
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    #5 Remy Zero, Sep 16, 2008
    the F2008 is pretty useless in rain/cooler conditions. and, Ferrari always seem to c*ck up their strategy whenever it's raining. bringing Massa in and sending him out back in heavy traffic...what sorta call was that. given Massa's pace, he could have easily finished 4th, or even 3rd, if he had not get caught up in traffic.
     
  6. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2006
    31,859
    In the flight path to Offutt
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    The original Fernando
    #6 Whisky, Sep 17, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2008
    Sorry, but I'm not buying that it's ALL about 'how bad the Ferrari is in the rain'.

    I don't WANT to, but I have to say there are a number of past retired drivers that did awesomely well in the rain, some drivers are cut for it, and some are not, and it really CAN be as simple as that.

    Senna did well in the rain no matter which of the 4 chassis (and versions thereof) he drove in his career was under him. So did Prost, and Lauda, and some guy named Bellof.... apparently nobody in a red car is anywhere near those levels to talent.

    Maybe it's car setup in the rain ? Does Kimi know how to set up a car ? And, I have been reading for years on here that Schumi's setup was copied to Massa's car.... and we don't have Ross Brawn to help...

    At some point, no matter who it is, the car, the motor, the tires, the aero, the setup, you just have to say 'maybe we are not very good at this', instead of laying the blame at the chassis itself.

    What I have learned in the 21st century is, no matter who or what the sport: folks ALWAYS have to point the finger at something else, instead of just admitting they are not very good, or they f---ed up.
     
  7. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,476
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    #7 Remy Zero, Sep 17, 2008
    Then why is Kimi struggling in the wet? the last victory we had in wet/semi-wet conditions was Schumi's last victory, the Chinese GP.
     
  8. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    23,343
    Taxachusetts
    Full Name:
    Raymond Luxury Yacht
    #8 SRT Mike, Sep 17, 2008
    Ron, that is a crock and you know it. The reason qualifying was screwed up is beause of the rain. It's not like these guys all went out there and got their very best shots in - there was a 1-2 lap window and many cars were stuck in traffic during those qualifying laps. Do you really think Vettel in an STR, Kovalainen, Webber in a Red Bull, Bourdais in a STR and Rosberg in a Williams are some of the top few driver/car packages on the grid and Massa had no shot of competing with them? LOL!!!!

    Many of the guys up front are *not* the fast drivers and weren't in the fast cars, so to say that Massa had a great drive just like Hamilton did is crap. Massa has done well this year, but Monza was absolutely not a race for him to remember. He hasn't had the problem that Kimi's had with getting the car to work the way he likes... and this was his chance to walk away in the WDC and he didn't. He's damn lucky Lewis settled into position behind him to mitigate WDC-points damages rather than trying to put a pass on him.

    Rain or not, Rosberg, Webber, Bourdais, etc are not drivers and are not in cars that should present any serious challenge for "cant-a-passa" Massa.
     

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