Are prices falling? Sheehan drops another down $20k

"He" is most probably acting on instruction of the buyer; there is nothing new here. Depends on the willingness or personal circumstances of the seller.

There is nothing really new here, all dealers have asking prices, what cars sell for is another matter.

Mike would surely have an ear closer to the market than most, but I don't think it's worth speculating on the face of a couple of ads..

Over the years this has happened quite regularly.

Just my two cents.

 

I heard from a well-recognized dealer that cars in the $100,000 to $200,000 range are just not moving.

 

I think a lot of the buyers in this price range are waiting to see where the economy goes before proceeding. I doubt that anything in this range will sell (unless at fire-sale prices) until things settle out.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Agreed - there is way too much uncertaintly in the economy right now for mere mortals to spend $100k+ on a toy. It will probably work out OK, but imagine the buyer's remorse if things really do go to hell and you have a shiny (but illiquid) Ferrari and need to raise capital for real needs. Even if you're game on taking the risk, it's very hard to sell the idea to the wife with more bad news in the newspapers every day.

Extremely wealthy people, who are looking at much more expensive toys, are a different story.

Sellers should wait a month or so and see how things are then. If you need to sell now, be prepared to take a haircut.

 

There is quite a few GTC/4s on the market right now and most have been for sale for quite some time. Fantasy Junction has had two for a while now (one of which for over 6 months) and they have reduced the prices as well. Where were these cars when I was in the market for one? When I was looking I couldn't find a decent example for less than 130K. And driver projects were a 110K.

 

up to 400k market now from my US contacts,market very slow weither its a Ferrari,Rolls Royce and Aston Martin.

 

Yes yes, frustrating as it may be, the global slowdown will not pass over the Ferrari market without hurting it -some will say massively.
I know of all the discussions regarding the wealth that some people appear to have and the fact that blue cheap cars are protected by that strata of wealth, somehow that argument should have applied throughout history and a GTO should have been priced at 150 mio usd, as there is always at least one person that can afford to pay that sum of money for it. I dont think this is how it works. Even the rich lose money and appetite when their wealth shrinks with the real estate market and stock markets like main street.
Its a relative value -hard asset- real estate matrix that great cars like Ferraris get valued against. As these assets fall so will any asset class that gets compared to that particular matrix.
As stated in a different thread: see you when 275GTB cost 400k, and California spiders change hands for 1.2 mio usd (aside from the random DJ or two holding a beer and feeling good).

Its ugly out there, enough to cause some to declare a potential economic depression. Why some would still think that high-end cars can withstand this is well, well beyond my understanding.

So the first signs of Ferrari pricing softness in the 512BB, 365 market etc that some have observed, will not stop there...most likely.
Anyhow. wish the world gets well soon.

 

I was at the RM Auctions last month and prices on the good and correct Ferraris were solid. Yesterday a 1974 365 GT4/BB sold for $195K on EBay on it's first run. Where is this down turn you're talking about? The 512 BBi that was reduced that Sheehan is marketing is no fire sale. This is not a low mileage car by any means with flaws in it's original paint. This car has been driven. It's not worth much more than the new asking price. The seller may also need the funds, so the price has been adjusted. I think there is already or will be a slight adjustment, but mostly on the main stream cars. I don't think it will last, with the market going strong again 4th quarter on 2009.

 

Geno, don't know what planet you live on but things are pretty dire on this one. There is no doubt that all cars will be impacted. The guys with $100 million will stop buying toys because that's what humans do in depressed times.

 

With the end of home equity loans and business finacing getting tight the market is going to drop. Looking at history classic cars are a lagging indicator. The muscle car area and hot rod area is already starting to drop by 20%. A lot for these cars are now over 30 years old and now losing thier utility value as cars. I was driving a friends 330 2+2 a couple of weeks ago and driving the car in suburban traffic was not as much fun as it was 20 years ago when I had my Lusso.

We also have to look at demographics and group behavior. It may become unfashionable to drive muscle and exotic cars. There may soon be a social stigma attached to owning these cars. With the Wall St bailout and enviromental conserns in the near future looking like a hedge fund guy may be detrimental to your social health and physical well being.

 

The economy has been on the mind of not just all Americans, but the whole world. We live in a global economy. The housing market has been in the gutter for well over a year now, with 2008 being worst than 2007. Based on that there should be NO ONE buying collector/classic automobiles, right? This is just not the case. Yes there are fewer funds out there and many marquis have seen an unrealistic increase in their evaluation. So let those particular cars adjust. I used to restore GM muscle cars and still like them very much. However the evaluation of certain cars in the last few years, cars made by the tens of thousands always seemed like a major bubble waiting to burst. I did not mind paying $25,000 for a nice 70 Chevelle SS 454, but $100,000-$150,000 always seemed excessive. The other main steam cars like your 360 Modenas, 430's and Gallardos will not do well in a major slow down. The true low production, high quality cars especially Ferraris will be just fine. That is why my friend paid over $800,000 (with tax) for the Reggie Jackson Lusso at RM Auctions last month. That is why a 512M sold quickly for correct money (around $180,000) listed in the Ferrari Market Letter a few weeks ago. That is why a 1974 365 GT4/BB sold immediately on its first run on EBay a few days ago. I think the fear factor is already "built in" in most peoples minds. I just do not see a major collapse here, but I been wrong once before!

Gene.

 

Then this will make the second time!

 

Nope sorry...don't agree.

If you're "in the market" for a no stories 250 GTO, California Spyder, SWB SEFAC Hot Rod or 250TR whether its US $10 million,15 or 18 if its available, it'll sell....

ex Coburn California Spyder and ex Lee 250GTO have both come to the UK in the last 6 months, both at record prices.

Out of the public eye, there are several transactions that have been completed this year that make the above look like "pocket change".

This isn't just a Ferrari "thing" - at least 2 significant Astons (a DBR1 and DB4Zagato) have changed hands in the last 12 months at alleged "record money" for the marque.

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

FAB 1 with it's non original engine. What a buy that was. Not.

It will be interesting to see if 250 GTO's fall to the point they broke to in the early 90ies. 17 Million to 3.5 Million. I think they will find support at about 5 million assuming Treasuries aren't downgraded. If that happens I bet they break the lowest price I've seen for one, 4.5K.

 

plenty of brokers in Australia doing it tough.

 

Look forward my friend, not backwards. Im sure we will all agree that the past has been great. Cars have inched up 30 pct per year every year... somehow the world has changed, it started 1 year ago, but like anything it takes time to propagate through the system. We are reaching record stress in the system and like all assets - see my first post - Ferraris, and other blue cheap cars will go down in price.

Using the argument of wealthy people having wealth would indicate that prices or cars and art should never - ever go down, and in fact should always be at the unobtainable level. Its starting to sound tiring but its internally inconsistent to claim that. IF THIS WAS THE CASE ALL 250GTO WOULD BE PRICED AT THE LAST MARGINAL DOLLAR - LETS SAY 150 MIO USD. Its not the case, and thus liquidity, preferances and FORWARD LOOKING expectations all figure into the market price of GTO's and all other collector cars.

For me the easiest indicator of Ferrari market strength are 275GTB. From 500k in 2004 to 1.2 mio usd in 2008. Even if you factor in the weaker usd, its the best asset appreciation around that i can think of for that period - aside from buying a barrel of oil. So thats been a smart trade!. Now, going out 18 months, the same asset will revert to 400k, just as simply as it has moved higher, its simple economic liquidity etc... just to underscore this, i counted 32 275GTBs for sale on the internet today at various brokers etc.. to my mind an indication they will smash down very very very soon

 

Tru dAt.

 

I hope so! I'd love to own a 275GTB at that price. I suspect there are quite a few others who feel that way too, which might keep prices up a bit from the lows.

 

Agreed.

Jim - I trust that you will keep me posted of the available 250GTOs for $4.5k. TIA

 

Over the last 5 weeks housing values in my area have gone over the edge and are plummeting in freefall. A particular home that was originally listed a year ago at $925K just sold on a buydown for $345K. I have seen prices on most houses drop 25 - 50% in just the last month. I dont know how this market will effect cars, but as noted muscle car prices are beginning to plummet as well. I saw a 1966 GTO parked out in a front yard with a forsale in the windshield yesterday. I havnt seen anything like that in 20 years. Harleys, boats, they have all been dropping, but its accelerated drastically in the last 30 days. So if your looking at auto auction prices from over a month ago to set a current market value, I dont believe month old sales hold any meaning today. I dont even know how anyone could appraise a home value today, its dropping too fast. So how could anyone know what cars are going to do tomorrow? Crystal ball?

The only thing that could save the vintage Ferrari market is if these cars are seen as solid investments as they were in the late 70's and through the 80's. Housing is dead as an investment, and apparently so are securities and annuities, where else can people invest thier money and know its safe? Probably not in a 1966 GTO, but perhaps a 1966 275? Time will tell, it always does. But unless you have to sell, I think I would hold on tight. Its only a sellers market if we aren't selling.

 

That one also included a trailer. Do you want that too or should I offer $4.2K for the car without it?

 

He'll keep you posted, but only after it's in his garage!

What I've noticed about houses, and I've done a little bit of looking, is that the houses with the huge declines don't seem all that desirable to begin with. Houses with everything you want-- nice location, unique design, views, space, etc., don't seem nearly as impacted.

I think you'll see the same phenomenon in the automotive world.

 

Where do you live Artvonne? In Chicago the housing market has been less affected than other parts of the country. I do not see 50% reduction in value. I do see at 10-20% adjustment on condos and single family homes. Multifamily is doing very well with commercial mostly flat.

Gene.