001S

That's why it's amazing, any idea which Stu?

 

I took the liberty of taking one of the previous pics, resizing it and posting it above the unknown car to get a better comparison if that helps any.
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I tend to believe 001S was race #36 in the 1948 Targa Florio. There is no number 12 in the entry lists I have for the 1948 or 1949 Targa. Are we sure where the picture is from? WHICH Targa Florio site is it posted on? Link please...

 

il me semble bien que c'est:
9/9/1951 Targa Florio
Domenico Tramontana/Andrea Cardella 166 MM chassis? N°12


link here, and follow:
http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/theme40/sujet378358-8960.htm

 

Hi all,

Strange car, really interesting. Could this be the mysterious 0028 M, rebuilt with body parts of a very, very early Ferrari car????

Regards,

Michael Hundt

 

This is the car Tramontata drove in the 1952 Targa Florio, certainly not a 166 MM configuration as listed in the Targa Florio 1952 list. Hence the listing of 1951 may also be misleading.
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Yes this is #001 On March 29, 1951 it went to Malide Grasso of Palermo, Sicily and registered on Plate PA 19181. It was driven in the 1951 Targa Florio\Giro Sicilia by D. Tramonto/A Cardella and finisher 3rd[?] I believe Bracco in a Ferrari was 2nd and Cortese won in a Fraser Nash.Steffano La Motta was killed in this event but not in #001 but in an Alfa 1900 while leading the 2000cc touring car class.Prior to the Targa/Giro Sicilia La Motta drove #001 in two events, the Montepellegrino Hillclimb and a road race in Palermo. I don't have dates for these two events but the race number on the car was #12. We know the rear bodywork was shortened and the spare wheel mounted outside on the rear deck lid. The picture also does show the two sets of louvers just behind the front wheels and the correct hood scoop.It appears the front radiater opening was enlarged and the seven bar grill removed.It's hard to tell from the picture but the wheels seem to be the original disk{steel} ones with the Rudge knockoffs. At some point eather during or after the Targa/Giro the car was destroyed in a crash and, so the story goes, all that was salvagable were the wheels which later ended up on a FIAT. In 1997 the wheels were discovered and may now be in the Targa Florio Museum. These of course are all that remain of the 1948 winning car. I hope most of this story is correct. Because of the confusion over which car La Motta crashed in 1951 I will need some4 help in identifying the crash that destroyed[except for the wheels] #001. just one man's opinion. tongascrew

 

3 May 1950: Sterzi (1st owner) sold 001 S to Stefano La Motta (2nd owner) of Palermo.
23 May 1950: La Motta had it re-registered on Italian plates of Palermo "PA 17370".
29 July 1950: La Motta sold 001 S to 3rd owner Mrs Matilde Grasso of Palermo. Grasso got it much earlier than mentioned in post #57.
29 March 1951: Re-registered on plates "PA 19181".
3 October 1951: Grasso sold the car to the 4th owner Silvio Cammarata in Palermo.
1 July 1953: Salvatore De Cordova of Palermo became the 5th owner.
24 September 1953: Gaetano Cantarella of Catania became the 6th owner.
9 May 1954: Re-registered on plates "CT 54577".
18 May 1959: Catania authorities confirm that Cantarella paid the last installment for the purchase of the car.

Marcel Massini

 

According to what I have for the 1951 Targa Florio, car #12 was driven by Tramontana and Cardella and was a Ferrari 166. What I have doesn't list chassis number or type of 166. The car was a DNF.

The race was won by Cortese in a Frazier Nash, with Cornacchia/Bracco 2nd in a Ferrari 212 E (again, chassis number not listed), and 3rd was Bernabei/Pacini in a Maserati A6GCS.I don't show any Alfa 1900s entered or any mention of La Motta

 

For the La Motta story, see post #29 in this thread.

 

OK. The 1951 Giro was on April 1st and the 1951 Targa Florio was on September 9th. That's why I don't have La Motta in the Targa listing...duh!

 

Marcel, thanks for the info.Do you have the details of the crash that destroyed #001? This seems to remain an unanswered question. thanks tongascrew

 

Thanks for mentioning this.Do you know if #001 was entered in eather of these events. I am still trying to find out details of how this car was destroyed. just one4 man's opinion tongascrew

 

Check post #57. tongascrew

 

What I have for the 1951 Giro di Sicilia is 4 Ferraris amongst the top 10...

1) Marzotto/Fontana 212E S/N 024MB?
2) Taruffi/Salano 212 S/N ?
9) Romano/Giannusa 166 S/N?
10) Checcacci/Bardazzi 166 S/N ?

Fatal Accident for La Motta/Faraco in 166 S/N 001S??

According to Marcel, he has sold the car by this time..

per Marcel: 29 July 1950: La Motta sold 001 S to 3rd owner Mrs Matilde Grasso of Palermo. Grasso got it much earlier than mentioned in post #57.
29 March 1951: Re-registered on plates "PA 19181".

 

Giro di Sicilia 1951

Vittorio Marzotto/Paolo Fontana #440 212 Export 0086E
Giannino Marzotto/Marco Crosara #435 212 Export 0024MB

Piero Taruffi/Ettore Salami #? 212 Export Touring Barchetta 0078E ?

Emilio Romano/Giannusa #? 166 S/C 0012M

Elio Checcacci/Bardazzi #? Ferrari 2.0l

 

I know that the Marzottos owned both 0086E and 0024MB, but I am not sure which brother drove which car. Is the La Motta car not on the list you have at all???

 

Well at least one person here is willing to state it still exists.

We know La Mottas'/Faraco's fateful accident was NOT this car.

We still wonder about car #12.

Other's here are not game to say.

The Cabo sport wheels however are in the TF Museum(pics?).

I would have though that if the wheels survive that certainly chassis 001 S could also survive it's post '59 crash?

Further, it would appear that in the picture in post #52 apart from the previously mentioned differences (rear/ side louvres/wheelbase) it is notable that the two drivers seem to be in different sitting positions possibly not attributable to differences in their height; but rather different position of the seats one mounted much lower than the other.. Possibly because of fundamentally different chassis?

Is there something worth waiting for here? A new revelation?

 

See post 57. La Motta kileed in an Alfs 1900 not in 001. tongascrew

 

OK. That means the entry and results list I have for the 1951 Giro is wrong...

 

On the Targa Florio site there is a similar comparison of the two pictures to that posted by Horsefly:

I cant help but be intrigued by the seating positions and different louvers to the side;

The later photo (LHS) has less louvering after the front wheel arch, how could this possibly be explained?

Also note that the person seated in the RHS car appears to be snuggled well down into the cockpit whilst in the reputed 1951 Targa Florio picture of Domenico Tramontana's car shows a shoulder line that is well clear of the cockpit sides certainly indicating a very much higher seating position?

Also one car has Cabo sport wheels and the other wires, what are the wheels int TF Museum and which TF Museum as there appears to be more than one museum also at both Cerda and Collesano?

Finally on page 48 of the TF site it states that:

"Di telai delle Ferrari 166.S sembra non ne esistano con numeri pari. Il telaio della vincente Targa Florio 1948 dovrebbe essere lo 001.S ( fonte: "FERRARI Tipo 166" di Gianni Rogliatti - Libreria dell'Automobile) mentre Allemano ha carrozzato soltanto i telai 001.S e 003.S (versione coupè vincente Mille Miglia 1948).

Tuttavia lo 001.S non sarebbe "ufficialmente" attribuibile ad Allemano, ma piuttosto ad un suo collaboratore ( fonte Ing. Busso - Scuderia Ferrari - intervista di Gianni Rogliatti ).

Nessun altro 166 sarebbe stato carrozzato da Allemano. "

IE 001 S is not actually bodied by Allemano; rather with a body by one of Allemano "collaborators" the source of this is an interview with Busso done by Rogliatti.
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That photo is not correct, and is a badly photoshopped version.

 

I just found by Nanni Dietrich this on an old Atlas nostalgia thread:

Pyrytus and me have found an other "bug" of the Internet, about the accident that happened during the Giro di Sicilia 1951, in which Stefano La Motta and Franco Faraco were killed.

Many sites write: La Motta-Faraco drove a Ferrari 166 S (or a Ferrari 166MM or a Ferrari 166 SC Allemano Spyder)

In the book "Il mitico Giro di Sicilia" by Pino Fondi, Giorgio Nada Editore - Vimodrone Milano, Italy 1996 - on pages 63-69 there is the complete history of the 1951 race, and it is described La Motta-Faraco driving a touring-car Alfa Romeo 1900, NOT a Ferrari.

On page 67 there is also an unequivocal black and white picture, in which La Motta's wife sais goodbye to her husband and the co-driver Franco Faraco behind him, at the start of the race. The car in the picture has clear colour, is definitely a sedan Alfa Romeo and the race number is 222. On page 68 there is the list of the works Alfa Romeo 1900 entered at the 1951 Giro di Sicilia, with the race numbers: for example Felice Bonetto # 223, Bernardo Cammarata # 221, Raimondo Lanza di Trabia # 215 and Baron Stefano La Motta # 222.

On the newspapers "Gazzetta di Modena" issue 2 April 1951, article "Vittorio Marzotto vincitore assoluto del Giro di Sicilia", and "Corriere d'Informazione" - at the time this was the title of the newspaper "Corriere Della Sera", monday's issue - article "Vittorio Marzotto si afferma nel Giro Automobilistico della Sicilia" by Ciro Verrati, is written the Sicilian drivers La Motta-Faraco lost their lives driving an Alfa Romeo 1900, and they were in first place of the touring-car 2000cc class at the moment of the accident.

Alfa Romeo had launched a new model of touring-car, the 1900, and decided to partecipate a great road race like the Giro di Sicilia to beat his greatest opponent in the 2000cc class, the Lancia Aurelias, with professional drivers like Felice Bonetto or local great gentlemen-drivers like Cammarata, "Eolo", Baron La Motta or Prince Lanza di Trabia.
La Motta and Lanza di Trabia were members of the "Comitato Organizzatore" of the race, both good drivers and both already entered at the Giro 1951 in their private cars: a Cisitalia for Lanza and a Ferrari (just the Ferrari 166 S in which he arrived 3rd over all at the Giro di Sicilia 1950, with Gino Alterio co-driver) for La Motta: they accepted the hiring from Alfa Romeo, and raced at the wheel of the 1900's. La Motta raced with Franco Faraco, an other very good driver - 8th over all at the Giro di Sicilia 1950 - for the first time co-driver.

It certainly looks like the history Marcel posted after 1951 in regard to 001S is correct. La Motta was driving an Alfa 1900 and NOT 001S in the Giro di Sicilia...