MEGA THREAD : PORSCHE VS. NISSAN : New GTR : 7:15 around the Nurburgring?

Like ive said it's starting to flow through.

In 1997 Autocar sent two of its best drivers to test out a production Nissan GTR to try to match the sub 8 minute record. Two of their best drivers included two-times Le Mans winner Robert Nearn, and Steve Sutcliffe. Their best time was 8:28.1.

 

If all you care about are numbers... yea it is pretty dang cheap! Hell of a car!

IMHO though, it's too much money to pay for an ugly car. But again, that's subjective.

 

Look at the Magazine that was blessed by Nissan to do it's initial hype, yes Autocar. Autocar later re tested a stock Nissan GTR as delivered to the UK. The best they could do was an 8:28 lap. The person that wrote that article was the same person that Autocar hired to test the production version of the R33 back in 1997. Steve Sutcliffe is also a handy steerer having competed in BTCC etc.



7:59* -- 154.82 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R (*free of the speed limiter standard on UK versions, so it was discounted) www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/228511/

8:28.1 - 145.98 km/h -- Nissan Skyline GTR www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/228511/

 

Here is the article. Apparently the sub 8 min Skyline GTR R33 had full slicks, non standard boost, chipped computer, and limiters removed.


AUTOCAR NURBURGRING ARTICLE

The Caterham's rear tyres howl in protest as I stroke its nose deftly through the Nurburgring's final corner. The crowd rises to its feet and a sea of Union Jacks are waved as I cross the line in record time. Then, through the mayhem, someone hands me a huge white telephone, ringing out above the cacophony...

Monday, 4.50am: the bedside alarm rudely terminates my dream and I remember that there's a new Porsche 911 parked outside. My aim today is to cross the Channel and drive to the Nordschleife in Germany to meet the men from Caterham, as well as a legend called Stefan and his extraordinary "Yellow Bird" Ruf Porsche.

Our goal could scarcely be more simple. We want to break the production car lap record for the famous old 12.95-mile Nurburgring. Currently it stands at 7min 59sec, set by a Nissan Skyline GTR in 1995. But given that the Skyline set the time during its development stage and was free of the speed limiter that prevents UK versions from doing more than 156mph, we can no longer count it as the true production car record holder. Especially as it's far from clear how much turbo boost the GTR was running during the lap, or how much tweaking the rear-wheel steer system had undergone.

So for these reasons and more, the standard production car lap record will no longer belong to the Skyline after this event; it will instead hold the record for a modified road car. Unless, of course, the unchipped, unfettled GTR that colleague Allan Muir is due to arrive in tomorrow can match, or perhaps better, that 7min 59sec time...


Nissan Skyline GTR: 8min 28.1 sec

Thanks to Bridgestone for all its tyres

Article written by Stephen Sutcliffe.

From Autocar 17th December 1997.
http://www.caterham.force9.co.uk/ring.htm

 

So if I understand you correctly, what you are suggesting is that if Nissan performance numbers couldn't be repeated in 1997 that the same company is trying to do the same nonsense in 2008?

Is that your point?

 

Yawn*.

Is this thread still being beaten to death?

 

Exactly.

 

Well the production GTR's are running mid 12's at barely over 110. Just what a 480 hp, 4800# car should. Guess those high 11 second cars really were ringers.................

 

Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

30 September 2008
Paul Gover


Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
- Herald Sun




http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/?referrer=email

 

Why am I not surprised? Kudos to Porsche for going through the time and expense of doing this-shows why they are a top manufacturer, although the gap now seems too much between the Nissan and the P-cars....how much boost was Porsche running?

 

This should stir things up a bit!

 

Yea, this should get all of the Ricers really ticked off about this. I like the GTR also, but love the Porsche a lot more.

 

IIRC Nissan also did a rolling start.........

 

At what, 150 MPH?

 

Should be faster than that for the straight on the N-ring coming out of the last turn.

 

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

- Herald Sun

 

I wonder if the Nissan was actually ever at the track or did they do it on a simulator in cheat mode.

 

I believe Porsche did also

 

Porsche is usually quite conservative with their numbers too.

 

hard not to say.....

"I told you so"

 

There is a established post in the "Off Topic" section.

 

Sour grapes on Porsche's part. Nissan just beat them in their own back yard with a car about 1/2 the cost and are a little embarrassed I suspect.

 

It seems the rumored 7:29s laptimes did not come form leaked prototype tests, but from Kaz during his interview with Toshio Suzuki about his 7:38 lap.

I actually took the time to watch the video interview in Gran Turismo TV, and few little details that were left out of the press release made the light of day.

When asked how many test laps did it take to get tht 7:38.... Toshio-san's answer was "About 1000 laps.. no more than 1000."

Then Kaz showed the replay of his time attacks on the Northloop with the R35 in GT5P... and he managed a 7:29 lap adding he managed to gain seconds by not breaking in the same damp spots that Suzuki did.

Kaz and Toshio agreed that you dont so much "drive" the R35, as you are along fo rthe drive - the car drives for you. Hey, this was their comments, not mine...

Another little detail overlooked is that Suzuki has owns a factory authorized tuning shop, Adenau - so how hard would it be for the test cars to be "tuned" for local conditions ..??

Just some food for thought.... 1000 laps to run a 7:38 vs the half dozen or so GM and Dodge run... sure makes one think....

 

How would tires alone make a 25 second difference? Had to be added boost or something as well?