MEGA THREAD : PORSCHE VS. NISSAN : New GTR : 7:15 around the Nurburgring?

LOL!

 

If Nissan has their facts right and want to make their claim in concrete, I'd redo the test then put footage up online.

 

Tires are a significant factor, but aren't worth the 25 seconds. In addition to the slicks, take out some weight and add some power, then you've got those 25 seconds.

Cheaters, they are.

 

I've never seen a car called "ringer" so many times as the GT-R.

 

I do, the R34 GTR.

 

But what would the difference between two "high performance street tires" be? Not DOT R vs DOT.... IMO not 25 seconds, even on a track like the N-ring.

As I understand, B-Mak is a racer. Also, the 911 brand manager at Porsche said the difference would require a DOT R street tire to be correct. Alain Prost also said the car, stock, is not capable of a 7:29 time. Those are some pretty big names (excluding B-Mak hahah just kidding) to ignore.

 

Not to mention that Nissan has a history of hyping (read: lying about) the numbers on their car.

Porsche has the opposite reputation.

And, as stated above, Porsche doesn't need the hype to sell their car, Nissan does.

 

That's just not one of the busy GTR forums. Try this, over 4 pages already:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25237

BTW, I thought post #24 in the above link was an especially good one.

 

Yeah, right. Those so-called independent tests with "objective" drivers on Nissan's payroll like Millen? Give me a break.
I'll bet a large sum of money that not only will the Porsche(with let's say Derrick Bell) beat the Nissan, but so will the Corvette(with Heinreichy), the Scud(how about Shuey) and the Viper ACR(with Neil H.). Especially if the test is conducted on a warm day and requires running more than one lap.
The GTR is an interesting technical exercise sporting awkward styling, a manufacturer looking to aggressively void warranties, wildly varying-non-repeatable performance figures, a wide array of techo goodies of questionable reliability and no threat whatsoever to the established marques. It strikes me as not only a "flavor of the month" vehicle, but is primarily supported by a fan base that can't afford it nor its so-called competition. Its considerable media buzz and hype are already beginning to fade. Sorry.

 

The Nordschleife is an incredibly long track, so semi-slick tires could easily make that much of a difference.

 

Numerous magazine tests on factory and customer GTRs from around the world have the GTR faster than the 911 and Z06 around 75%+ of the time, you people are a bunch of whiny crybabys who cant accept the fact that the GTR is a very quick car due to its transmission and sophisticated AWD system. GET OVER IT and if Porsche could only ring an almost 8 minute lap in that car then they should be embarrased. The haters always have excuses, numerous tests, videos, timeslips, people who own the cars and yet people still go on and on, ringer this, ringer that, more boost, different tires, drivers sandbagging other cars, test-drivers on Nissans payroll

 

Take the article as what it is. When "Porsche Engineer" not "Test Driver" drove both TT and GTR, he was faster with TT. I can believe that. But it doesn't mean all of sudden GTR is now "Exposed" as slow car. Because if that was the case, it would have been "exposed" long time ago by at least one magazine comparison or TV show.

 

If it wasnt a threat at all then this thread and all the negativity against the car wouldnt exist. The Z06 is around the same price as the GTR, its styling is questionable inside and out. The GTR is quicker pretty much anywhere outside of a drag strip and its far easier to get extra power out of, they will hold there value much better and unlike the C6 Vette I wont see 836 of them everyday. Direct your negativity elsewhere. I really hope the VSpec comes here and I hope its weight is significantly reduced, if the GTR is as fast as it is@ 3900lbs just imagine dropping 500lbs from it.

 

if you had any idea the quality drivers that are in the industry that are engineers first, and test drivers second... you wouldn't even consider posting what you just did.

Throw a Ringmeister into a car, and he will do amazing things with it. The difference between a driver with 100's-1000 laps in A CAR vs. a driver with 1000-10,000 laps on A TRACK (particularly NS) ... the Track Expert will not be much slower. Sport Auto lap times are almost always 5-7 seconds slower then factory drivers. The Nissan is nowhere near this. How can the fanbase explain that one?

I tend to think Porsche test drivers know what driving on the limit is quite well.

 

500LBS would be sweet... but they are going to have to shed LOTS of stuff...

many people are under the impression that CF panels is going to make the car much much much lighter... you have to remember that the cars unibody is what is making up the majority of the weight (excluding the drivetrain)

they are going to have to cut down the glass, carbon fenders, hood, trunk lid, maybe go to aluminum doors... no back seat... little sound deadening etc..

its going to take some serious work to get that car to shed 500 lbs. remember... they didn't design it from the factory to be a pig...

also, they are going to have to get all of that body work to pass crash tests etc... and nissan will have to run the car through every countrys DOT all over again, costing millions...

i hope they do it, but am a little hesitant on there ability.

 

Porsche testing other cars isnt a surprise, they previously tested a Ferrari but have not called Ferrari cheaters but they did with Nissan (why is this)?





Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to his fund of great stories

12th November 2007

Driving at the Ring recently in a Ferrari 599 GTB (Porsche had it for appraisal), he found himself gradually gaining on a black car in the distance. Eventually he is a metre from the back bumper of what turns out to be another 599. Into one of the last corners, its driver makes a mistake and Röhrl dives up the inside. Later the black car draws alongside, its window winds down and the driver calls Röhrl a ‘lunatic’. Mind, Michael Schumacher never was a good loser…

 

Classic !
If true.
Water is supposedly THE Ringmeister.

 

The sport cups come on the GT2, the GT3 and the GT3 RS, from looking at Porsche's website.

What I'm getting at is the fact that in all the tests the GTR and whichever Porsche is plugged in perform approximately the same, either being faster than the other by a tad depending on the track, with both the Nissan and Porsche using their respective oem "stock" tires.

But Porsche is now whining about Nissan using different tires to get their nurburgring time, when in fact their cars are the ones running on some of the stickiest road-legal tires on the market. These things cost a fortune and have a treadwear rating of next to nothing.

To me it looks as if the Porsche's need their sport cups to even compete with the GTR in all of the tests. If the Porsche's came with more civilized tires there would simply be no competition.

So while Porsche makes claims of unknown veracity accusing Nissan of cheating on their tires for one lap time in their own test, it is a known fact that the Porsche models depend on their ultra-sticky tires for every lap time in every test to even come close.

 

Probably because Porsche's formula is the ultimate daily driver supercar at bargain prices. (Compared to Italians anyhow) The GT-R is a huge threat to Porsche since it's more usable, faster, easier to drive, with more amenities, way cheaper and doesn't look like 5000 other Porsches on the road. It's panic time.

 

That's the thing, it wasn't the Porsche test drivers.

"The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring."

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/

I am sure the the engineer is a great driver, but I have to ask if he was willing to drive the GTR at the limit. Does he really want a GTR to be faster than his own creations?

 

I think they should allow multiple drivers from various car companies, magazines, etc drive GTR's (acquired on their own mind you) meet up and run 3 runs each. Take an average of each and that should answer questions.

Since they're already on everyones suspicion list a simple video would not suffice.

Let the Stig drive it.

 

Sure they're wanting to set a new benchmark, and it appears that they did, but cheating will only lose respect in the long run despite the short term accomplishments.


Really, I have a slight issue beleiving that it did a 7:29.

Just saying...

 

Exactly!

Indeed. When I watch the official nissan video of the GTR's lap, it's frightening how fast that guy is going around blind corners and over hills. It looks to be about as perfect a lap as one could drive (compared to other videos especially, e.g. Viper ACR). I have a hard time believing that the Porsche engineer wants to risk his life pushing the GTR, especially when better performance = bad news for his company.

The Nissan GTR is an entirely different car from what Porsche produces, anyway. I'd say the closest thing they have on their lineup would be the Cayenne, being front engined and all-wheel drive. On the other hand, the chief test driver for Nissan would have a far better understanding of the car and what it can do.

 

I don't think you understand the primary Porsche buyer if you believe this car threatens their "core" market, especially in the US. Rarely are Porsches pushed in any real way. Most Porsches are bought for image and maybe some brisk acceleration up on-ramps with a little extra zip through the curves.

Nothing against Nissan, but who is going to buy a Nissan for "image"? Other gearheads will know what it is, but most people will see a swoopy car, look at the badge, and then go "oh, what an interesting Nissan".

As for racing fans...how many Nissans did we see at Le Mans this year? In ALMS?

I don't see this car as a substantial threat to Porsche's primary customer base, no matter how fast it is. If it is faster, will it sting their pride? You bet, and I believe THAT is what motivated this comparison, not fear of mass defections to Nissan.

I would bet good money the average Porsche buyer has never even heard of the GTR.