http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/29/jenson-button-to-get-seventh-season-with-honda-115875-20759467/ Jenson Button to get seventh season with Honda Byron Young In Singapore 29/09/2008 Jenson Button is set to sign on for a seventh season as a Honda driver. The 28-year-old, who contested his 150th race yesterday, is expected to put his pen to paper at the Japan Grand Prix in two weeks' time. And he reckons Honda's technical director Ross Brawn, who made Michael Schumacher a seven-time champion, can turn them into true title contenders. "There is a big possibility for us to be fighting at the front next year," said Button, who just missed out on points in ninth place yesterday Go Button !
I hope he can do it... he is a much better driver than the Honda is a car. After his silliness of going between Honda and Williams, he seems to have stuck to one thing and given it his best.... yet the car just hasn't been there. I hope Brawn can do it for his sake too, he's a great engineer and I want to see him succeed. The main problem, from what I have read, is politics within the Honda team. If that's the case, they need someone to come along and cut through all the red tape and let them do the things they need to do in order to win races!
I agree, because IMO JB's true level/pace still hasnt caught up with reality. And I believe that Honda are really ahead on development of there 2009 car, or at least alot of effort has already been put into it. That is why IMO they want FA with them, to help with it. Although FA with another Brit might not be quite what FA has in mind.
How do you know this? Honda used to be a competitive team that was winning some races - do we have such short memories? Let us not forget how bad Minardi was a few years back... then with some Red Bull money, they are winning races! Who'da thunk it! Hondas problem has never been the money, it's been the engineering. And now that they have Brawn, it would be foolish to count them out in 2009.
I seem to remember the cover of F-1 Magazine last year after Kimi won the title and it was Jens on the cover (not the world champion, mind you) saying how he would contend for the title. I laughed out loud. Now, he will be "fighting at the front." The only way that happens is that he blocks the leaders as they come around to lap him. OK, all you British writers out there, try to be serious when you blast me for writing this. Neither Honda or Jensen will be a serious threat next year. Blast away, but in your heart, you know I am right.
Wow he has been there 6years already!?! Time flies! It feels like it was only yesterday that I saw him @ his 1st race in Melb... that year Mark Webber was selling T-shirts in a small booth to try and get his foot in F1... haha.
With all the reg changes for next year, it's going to mighty hard to peg what team and driver will be doing what.
I can't disagree with your statement about pegging driver and team and performance, but there are some things we do know. First, Honda has a budget that, for practical purposes, is unlimited. Sure, they can't spend to infinity, but they have a pretty good playing field on which to build their cars. Not only have they failed, but they have failed miserably. And, their failure has been consistent. Second, this is not a case like the tire war, where a chassis would "come to the tires." Given the change in regs, it is not likely that the regs will come to the car and dramatically improve its performance. Rather, one can see--with some objectivity--that those who have adapted to the regs so far, are probably better suited to continue adapting. And, if there were some technological breakthrough like a strange looking wing or coke-bottle shape that suddenly makes Honda a contender, then you can bet that McL and Ferrari will copy it by the end of testing. Third, if you look at in-cockpit shots of McL, Ferrari, and to some extent BMW and Renault, you will see a relatively calm steering wheel--especially in McL. In order to move the car forward, Honda will have to at least keep the steering wheel from looking like a Richter 7 earthquake in California. Fourth, despite the hype and despite his own ego, Jensen has consistently underperformed. You can't get around that fact. Put it all together and it looks like a backmarker. In F-1 we see evolution, not revolution.
Clearly, judging by Honda's performance the last few years. Paper > plastic, especially with banks folding up.
Not true. In 2004, Honda finished 2nd only to Ferrari in the WCC championship. In 2006, they were the "best of the rest" finishing 4th behind Ferrari, McLaren and Renault. Not true. Remember 2005 when Ferrari finished a *distant* 3rd in the WCC, just above Toyota. Remember how bad the car was that year and they were fighting (and losing) to the Jaguars? Also, Toyota is doing quite well this year - remember when they were the laughing stock of the paddock and the ongoing joke was how much they were spending in F1? Folks aren't laughing at them now. All it takes is one year, or even more importantly, one major change for a team to leapfrog others forwards or backwards. It would be foolish to think Honda will always be a backmarker, because they won't be. It's an all new car for next year. Ferrari have supposedly had problems with KERS. Honda and Williams have supposedly done very well with KERS. Do not be surprised if there is a rearranging of the pecking order next year. That's great, except it's simply untrue. In 02, he scored 14 points to Trulli's 9 points at Renault. He beat Villeneuve 17 points to 6 in 2003. He beat Sato 85 points to 34 points in 2004. He beat Sato 37 points to 1 point in 2005. He beat Barrichello 56 points to 30 in 2006. He beat Barrichello 6 points to 0 points in 2007. Can't get around the "fact" that he's consistently underperformed? If you mean ignore the facts proving the contrary, then I guess you're right Like the evolution of the 2005 Ferrari F1 car? Like the 04 McLaren that finished behind Ferrari, Renault, Honda and Williams? Face it - teams move up and down the pecking order all the time. It wasn't too long ago (2002-2003) that Williams were a top team, challenging Ferrari for the WCC title. Then a few years later, they are getting their asses kicked by Red Bull (Jaguar), Toyota, and Sauber. Honda has huge funds. They have good, even great (in Button) drivers, they have (now) great engineers (Brawn). Only a fool would count them out and say they will never be anything. And it would be contrary to the proven historical results to say "once a back marker, always a back marker". STR proves that out beyond doubt this year.
I wouldn't count Honda out. They have the motivation (considering the cubic tons of $$$ they are spending) They have the talent (Brawn and people he was given free reign to bring in) They have the drivers (Button is probably at least on par with guys like Rosberg, and IMO on the level of guys like Kubica) They have the experience (hey, they've been fast and been slow before - they can do it again - nothing stopping them). Also, they have an even that will shake up the field - the addition of KERS. It really will juggle the order of the field a fair bit, IMO. I think it will be an area where the large road car manufacturers may benefit. They have vastly more engineering background and know-how to draw on. Williams is said to have bought a company that uses revolutionary KERS technology, so they may have a huge leg up too. We shall see. In the years I've been on this forum, I've seen Toyota go from a joke to a real contender. I've seen Ferrari go from the best of the best to a joke (2005 anyone?). I've seen a Minardi with a new engine win a race fair and square. And I've seen the fastest-bar-none car (the Renault) for the last few years turn into a dog. It would be foolish to count any team out, especially one of the big OEM teams that has massive gobs of $$ to throw at the problem, and engineering talent like Brawn. We shall see
I'm not counting anyone in, not counting anyone out. There are far too many rule changes for next year to judge performance from 2008 to 2009 for any team with a chest full of coins large enough to mount an attack. Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault, BMW Sauber, RBR/STR, Honda, Toyota and Williams all have the coin and personnel to make things happen for next year.
Honda does have an advantage where they don't have to concentrate on the 2008 car anymore. Ferrari, McLaren etc. have to put their efforts in both 2008 and 2009 cars because they are still fighting for positions for this year's championships. For Honda that's not really the issue anymore.
Hopefully it goes well for Button next year as I've always been a fan. It should be a very interesting season with all the reg changes, might shake things up a bit though imo the top teams (Ferrari, McLaren) will remain at the top.
Probably true. With the amount of people on teams such as Ferrari and McLaren, they can dedicate significant resources to new car development and not feel the pinch. The smaller teams are at a real disadvantage.
If any of you follow MotoGP, there is a parallel competitor: John Hopkins. Every year the hype starts that this will be "his" year. It has been this way for at least 4 years, yet every year he doesn't even get a sniff at the championship (or race wins for that matter). IMO Button is the same. He might have a good race weekend every so often, but will never challenge for the title with the Honda. The motorsports dominance demanded from the top at Honda is no longer with us, and they seem to be content to just participate. Motocross, Supercross, roadracing in the US, World Superbike, MotoGP, and of course F1...Honda seems to have lost their way.
You make some good points, but I am not convinced. My statement was that next year it looks like a backmarker. While that term is pretty loosely defined, I consider a backmarker to be a car that is in danger of getting lapped. The car does not have to be the last car in the chain to be in that category--at least not in my definition of backmarker. My other statement was that F-1 is evolution, not revolution. If you have to reach back to the 2004 season, then the evolution theory is reasonable. I concede that a change like KERS could throw the came wide open, but I still believe that in F-1, imitation is the finest form of flattery. Remember when everyone had a high nose? Then, everyone started lowering their noses to follow McL. Then you had all these side flares. And, finally, I must comment on the statement about beating your teammate. I understand that this is a measure of performance that is used, but most drivers out there want to beat everyone else, not just their teammate. What I'd like to see is the average "gap" to the teammate. IHypothetical: f Jens wins a race and then finishes two places behind Rubbens in every other race (but neither scores points), it looks like Jens outscored Rubbens 10 - 0. But what about the 'gap?" Does Jensen put 2 or 3 other cars between him and Rubbens and does he do this consistently. Look, like everyone, I have an axe to grind, and I am happy to admit that publicly. Jensen gets under my skin because he gets unwarranted attention. Many drivers have better records, but languish in obscurity because Jens happens to be British--and F-1 magazine is published there. As an American, I can admit that Scott Speed sucked. (any problems with this statement?)
