MEGA THREAD : PORSCHE VS. NISSAN : New GTR : 7:15 around the Nurburgring?

Personally, I love this "controversy" as it harkens back to what racing really was in the beginning with each competitor bringing their own car (no rules on what that means) to run on a fixed course -- of course, if Nissan is fudging the facts/claims, they should be called out on it. IMO, racing was way better when it was a contest of "my car is better than your car" rather than today's "my driver is better than your driver when using the same car". My heroes are the car makers - Ford, Ferrari, the Maserati brothers -- the pilota is just a piece of the car

 

Lol, Porsche is looking stupid and Nissan is being a complete smart ^ss about it. The whole fiasco is hilarious to watch, especially when Nissan offers to give Porsche drivers free driving lessons. I can't wait until the Discovery Channel make a documentary about the GT-R development, Nurburgring record and all the subsequent drama that followed.

 

What I want to see then is a showdown: Nissan and their driver with a STOCK GTR and Porsche in a stock Turbo and their driver (likely to be Rohrl) in a head-to-head race. THey could invite all of the magazines and make it a big showdown. Maybe Chevy would throw in a ZR1 too.

 

I don't think Porsche is looking stupid, but I do think Nissan feels they are way better than they truly are. If there wasn't such a huge difference in timing then nothing would have been said.

 

I would love to see that. Every company brings out their fastes production car to see who really is the king.

 

Quote: I would love to see that. Every company brings out their fastes production car to see who really is the king.

Response: So Maserati would walk away with the trophy... : - )

 

That's been done so it would be a boring match. It's public information the GT-R is faster than the 911, 911S, 911 Turbo, 911 GT3. If would be more fun to setup a match in 2009:

Porsche GT2 (with the new tranny) vs Nissan GT-R V-spec vs Chevy Corvette Z06 vs Dodge Viper ACR.

 

I know, AWD doesn't take much skill.

I guess those tools at Nissan forgot Porsche has a little something called the 911 Turbo which is AWD....

 

Nissan answers back!!
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Which sucks compared to Godzilla's AWD.

 

Sounds like a job for "Mythbusters"

 

Corvette Quarterly is claiming a 7:24.6 for a stock ZR1 on street production Michelins. The driver says that he thinks he might be able to pick up around a second with more practice and that there was a strong headwind on the longest straight.

BTW, I didn't exactly read the Porsche comments as a direct claim that Nissan cheated - I thought that they just expressed puzzlement that they could not come close to the reported time with their test car and suggested that either tires or boost would be the logical place to gain that much time.

 

I've had a little experience organizing track test events.

Not gonna mention any names but what i've seen is underinflating competitor car tires and adjusting camber and toe in for optimal results with sponsor's cars. Drivers often know the deal that you do a good job driving the competitors car and a great job with the sponsor's car.

These tricks wouldn't make for a 20 second gap though.

 

I still say my 1986 300zx turbo can take it.

 

If this GT-R was a ringer, then wouldn't that take a lot of the thunder out of the V-Spec yet to come? Or is Nissan going to chip and tune the V-Spec beyond what they will eventually release to the public to get appropriately faster times?

Does any of this really matter? If it's that important to anyone, then why not go and test drive one and make your own opinions? Otherwise, all you have to go by is what you read in the magazines.

I'm just glad that there is another hot performance car that's pushing the whole industry forward.

 

Yes, if you watch the video you see the driver missed some shifts and screwed up some corners-which makes that time even more impressive...Never cared for 'vettes but the C6 is an awesome ride and so kudos to Chevy....in the current economic crunch I see great deals being had on them (not the ZR1 but on the Z51s and Z06s).

 

All I can say is "who cares?" We are talking about a Nissan and a Porsche, for christ-sake!

 

TOKYO — Nissan has officially refuted suggestions that cheating might have been involved during its testing of the 2009 Nissan GT-R at the Nürburgring Nordschleife this year. The carefully worded document from Tokyo responds to rumors that Porsche was unable to duplicate the GT-R's 7:29 effort in its own testing of a car this summer.

The Nissan release notes that the GT-R set what was then a new lap record for production sports cars of 7:29 on April 17, 2008, during customary performance and durability testing. The car met production specifications in every way, had been equipped with production-specification Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tires and had been driven by professional racing driver Toshio Suzuki. The car carried 110 pounds of data and video recording equipment. An official announcement was made in June.

Nissan notes that the test was observed by Best Motoring, a leading Japanese car magazine, and was conducted according to the Nürburgring test protocol for lap times established by Sport Auto, a leading German magazine. Nissan further says that it still has the tires used for the test.

The company says it's aware that other automakers have purchased examples of the GT-R for evaluation. It notes, "Like all GT-R customers, we recommend than any automaker buying a GT-R follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from the car. In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Apparently this whole saga began last May, when a member of Porsche's Nürburgring development team was overhead at a social establishment near the track rather loudly expressing his skepticism of the GT-R's ability to surpass the Porsche 911 Turbo's speed at the Nordschleife. Just a few weeks ago under similar circumstances in Verona, Italy, for the introduction of the Porsche 911 Targa, the same person repeated his thoughts in the company of members of the Australian press.

Our sources have since learned that Porsche purchased a GT-R in America soon after the car's official introduction and quickly air-freighted it to Germany ($40,000 is usually the tab for such an exercise). Some time later, members of the Porsche crew at the Nürburgring brought the car to the Nissan development shop near the track and explained that they seemed to be having a little trouble with it. Kazutosi Mizuno, chief vehicle engineer and chief product specialist for the GT-R, happened to be there and — since all the Nürburgring development teams for various manufacturers are really one big family of friendly rivals — happily agreed to help them.

Porsche's GT-R had something over 3,000 miles on the odometer. Its tires were in tatters. The brakes were terminally toasted. None of the fluids had been changed. Mizuno inquired whether the transmission had been recalibrated following the recommended 1,200-mile break-in procedure as specified in the owner's manual. It had not. Mizuno provided new tires and new brakes, changed the fluids and recalibrated the transmission. And then he carefully explained the driving techniques that are required to help the GT-R do its best (as a former race engineer in charge of Nissan's effort at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, he knows his stuff) and sent them on their way.

It seems Porsche was no more successful afterward, and now the testing season at the Nordschleife has concluded as winter weather approaches. Our Nissan sources tell us that the whole episode is highly humorous, especially as Porsche declines to describe its own testing protocol for Nordschleife laps. When spring arrives, we'll see if there are any mysterious German students in Nissan's performance driving schools for GT-R owners.

 

3,000 miles in a car isnt too much, is Nissan now saying that their car isnt reliable to last 3,000 hard driven miles? Of course the tyres and breaks were in tatters how do you think Porsche was supposed to achieve 7:29 around Nurburgring except to drive the car at 10/10ths.

This is too funny, Nissan thinks too highly of themselves and their Le Mans achievements. Nissans efforts and achievements in the Le Mans 24hr pales in comparison compared to Porsche.

Hahahahah guess whose driving around a German track. Im pretty sure Porsche doesnt need any driving lessons from Nissan.

So all these Nissan maintenance talk didnt help crack 7:29? Im surprised I was sure an oil change was enough to shave over 20 seconds off the time.

 

For some reason, i think that Porsche might know a little something about AWD...

 

Performance wise possibly; styling wise it sets the industry back 25 years in my opinion.....

 

The whole situation is fairly humorous and while I can't figure out how the GT-R does what the magazines report it to do... Porsche is being idiotic in how it is handling the public relations of this. Keeping your mouth shut and not commenting would be the wiser course of action if you can't even get your star test driver to be the man behind the wheel of the cars when you're doing the comparo.