Hi All, Please don't read if you're a bit off today... After nearly 200 glorious roof down miles, disaster struck !!!!!!! I knocked off the 400 to put it into neutral to mess with the radio, put it into park, turned the key and Exactly, NOTHING, seems the solenoid's gone in the starter, low loader truck carted it off. That's not the disaster... Seems the ring gear on the flywheel's very worn (95,000 mile car) and need sto be replaced. Quoted 10 hours labour just to remove the starter, god knows how muck the ring gear job will be. Anyone know, is it and engine out, auto 'box out or both together?????? Anything else I should look out for? Other than a high bridge??? Very depressed, probably the worst 2 1/2 months of my life, I was better off never experiencing that damn V12 I used to be a happy person.....
Niall, Sorry to hear of all this complexity, but it is better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all. Time will be the healer in this. You will get the expert answers to your questions very soon. It's not as bad is it seems. The flywheel, can be repaired by a good machine shop, so don't buy a new one...yet. It's just the time factor of age that is showing itself. Things will be better soon and you will be enjoying driving her again. To some, living with a Ferrari, as tempermental as they can be, is less costly than living with an ill tempered beautiful woman... Ciao...Paolo
would you share some experience? i noticed a ringing noise when i start. did you have same sound before it stopped working?
Niall, I just can't believe it takes 10 hours to get to the starter. I haven't got the car on a lift high enough to guage the access from sown below as mentioned in Marks thread "dam starter". From top-side, it can't take more than a couple of hours. Pulling injectors is a little tricky if they haven't been pulled out for a while (be careful not to man-handle/kink the lines), but refer to the thread mentioned, & maybe Mark may share his experience/tips. I'd disconnect the cohline fuel connection at the WUR/Warm Up Regulator (Bosch refers to them as 'control pressure-regulator') when removing the fuel metering device (Bosch/fuel distributor). Remember, always replace the copper crush washer at all connections that are broken (available at your local NAPA store). Oh, that's right, you don't have NAPA where you are. Bruce
You have a pretty damned low threshold for "disaster". Looks like predictable maintenance for an old car. Not an "easy" job but not real tough.
That is an amazingly low threshold for using the word disaster. I sent this post to my 28 year old grand son. He badly needs to understand that the luxuries you thought you couldn't live without can quickly become the bane of your existence. Buy these toys when the repairs won't make you blink. Until then, buy real estate and gold.
Hang in there, Niall. I feel your pain. Once you get these problems sorted out you'll be able to really enjoy your car. Not many people are fortunate enough to own a Ferrari V12 convertible. Aidan
Niall, One of the reasons that 400s and TRs are cheap to buy is because they can be expensive to maintain (another reason is that 80's cars are not the flavor of the month). Also, sorting any Ferrari is often a time consuming and expensive proposition. What you are experiencing is par for the course in reviving an older Ferrari with differed maintainance issues. It is only a disaster to you because you were unaware of this in advance. However, on a positive note, if you stick it out through the sorting pains you will end up with an enjoyable, reliable car. Regards, Art S.
I think somebody is pulling your shillelagh my friend. Even a person born with two left hands and no thumbs should have the starter in or out in about an hour. Once out, another hour to disassemble, clean, and, reassemble the starter. All totaled, maybe 4 hours max. As for the starter ring, you would have to attempt to re-engage the starter on a running motor MANY TIMES to do any real damage. (Ex-wife style) I'm not sure what 400 you have because the series 2 ignition locks prevent this. Dave, is this the same on the series 1? The Marelli starters on these cars are virtually indestructible! A good cleaning and some WD40 should get you on your way. Also, you would hear an incredible high pitched grinding noise during the destruction of the ring gear as well as a 'thud whirl' if the starter was missing the ring. Well, there's my two cents. Good luck with it.
I agree with Mark except I would take the 10 hours to get the starter out just for the pleasure of doing the work! I enjoy my car's 2 years of relative reliability, but I never fear any job as long as it does not involve the internals of the engine. If the ring gear actually needs replacement as one poster said only the tranny needs to come out. That is some hours work due to the torque tube, but you might check seals and such on the tranny while it is out. GM parts may be a bit scarcer in Ireland but they will still be 10% of a Ferrari part. Good luck Niall; Guinness should help the pain. Ken
You won't need to pull the motor. Pull the trans and you'll be able to get to it. Loosen the rear support for the torque tube and it'll slide backward JUST enough (but just barely enough) to get the trans out. Uh, I don't think so! You have to pull the headers amongst other items. 1 Hour? Nope, sorry. Again, sorry Mark, but the starters on 400's are notorious for going bad.
I know this doesn't help but.... I had a 1979 Honda Accord with 90K miles in the mid 80's and the starter went bad as well as it had a worn ring gear. I put in a new starter but 3 out of 4 times the starter would just make this awful grinding noise instead of turning over the engine. Pretty embarrassing to say the least. It also smoked from oil consumption, the AC didn't work, the passenger window wouldn't go up without grabbing on it first, the interior whistled if you drove with the windows up, the fabric material had worn through the driver's seat, the paint was faded, and the area around the windshield rusted so bad, you could almost see through it. It wasn't worth fixing the ring gear so I sold it to guy for $200 who wanted to put a used $100 engine in it in his carport. For me at that time in my life, that was a disaster. In my opinion, the 1970's was the worst ever for reliability of almost all cars. So, a 90K mile Ferrari having the same problem as my so called "well engineered" Honda isn't necessarily "unique" to cars of this period. It's a pain to fix --but at least it's worth fixing. Oh, and to close the story --- I've never bought another Honda since.
I just did it the other night. About an hour twenty pulling it out and an hour ten putting it in. Right rear header and all. Don't forget, I've had this thing apart so many times that I could be on a 400i pit crew! There is a difference between bad and really bad. A 'repair shop' is not going to spend an hour pulling apart a twenty year old starter just to see if maybe they can clean it up and get it working. If anybody wants to sent me their 'bad' Marelli starter I'll clean it up and get it working.
It may be evidence of some deeply rooted problem: I really do love my 400. And Dave, while I sit here typing, my daughter asked if Texas is a state. I told her no, its Texas.
If you cut Alaska in half and made two states out of it, then Texas would be the third largest state.
Tell her most Texans think it is a country. I moved here 20 years ago. I swear sometimes I think it really is another country. It didn't take me long to figure out that in Texas it is, (you figure out the order) God, Texas, Guns, Country, Family, & High School Football. What a place; I mean where else can you go bankrupt and you get to keep your house, your boat, your cars, your ranch, your livestock, your guns, etc.?
After reading this and going through starter issues on my 308 I have to ask this question. Is everything on the 400 and 412 a real PIA to work on? I assume from the post that it is REALLY cramped in the engine bay. I've only seen the 400 from the top not the bottom so I really have no clue.
