The financial reality of Ferrari ownership...

I would say some are and some are not normal maintenance. But dont forget how this thread started. A $60k modena. I would have to say expect some of these items with that car. My bet is that the current owner knows the cost of reapairs, hence the price.

Engine mounts I am told by the dealer should be looked at every three years, regardless, and that is is a routine repair. I would agree that normal maintenece is probaby $3 - $5 per year. But thats my point. I beleive people feel the need to keep the cars appreaence up to that of a Ferrari. if the headlights in my range rover were imperfect, i wouldnt even notice. But in the Ferrari i feel I should mainatain the appopriate apearence of the car.

Dont you agree?

B


I guess my point is you are more likely to be tolerant or less conscious of similar items in everyday cars. therefore you will spend the money to get it right in the ferrari.

B

 

No I do agree.. however for instance the biggest ticket item you listed is the CV joints.. I need to ask what happened there? how did they fail?

if you want to talk about the average maintenance on a 360 in great condition I would say that many of the issues you have resolved would take about 10 years (with steady driving, about 60k or more miles) to accumulate.. if the motor mounts are failing below 30k miles the mounts are garbage and same goes with the CV joints..

the guy who is looking at a 60k modena is going to be getting a 60k+ mile car that has probably been ridden very, VERY hard and yes I absolutely agree these are the kinds of bills he would be seeing..

but if he paid 100k for 10k mile 2000 year modena he likely wont be seeing any of the issues you posted for at least a few years of ownership..

 

I had mine less than a year and a poor clutch replacement by a "reputable" shop eventually fried the synchros in my tranny. (10k+ for tranny rebuild Couple add in a new TCU, speed sensors, motor and transmission mounts, while were in there clutch replacement, belt service to get the variators done, fluids, tires etc.) overall my first year of ownership brought me 30k+ in service.

Now lets talk about depreciation.

 

or a $4000 exhaust system or $1800 tires

 

Guess I'm the only one ripping though rear tires.

As for the exhaust, I do not consider that to be unsual for a nine year old car.

 

I respectfully disagree. if you buy a 2000 for $100k you are still buying a eight year old car. Tires, without miles have a life. All rubber items, without wear, have a life. These things are many times more expenseive for a ferrari. Not to mention the most basic fact. Ferrari of CNJ (which I think very highly of) charges $150/hr labor. Mercedes of Morristown NJ charges $85.

Keep in mind as the dealer told me, and it makes sense. People tend to push these cars harder, even track them. therefore we keep things in tighter tolerances.

 

I just looked at the flow and realied I have begun to monopolize this thread.

Sorry, didnt mean to get so defensive. Hate throwing money away.



Bora

 

Even a Range Rover can cost thousands a year if you log in the miles. $95.00/hr labor plus fairly high dollar parts...A major service is a couple of grand!

 

as long as that 8 year old car is mainted while sitting there... it most certainly is NOT going to have CV join failures and engine mount issues.. especially if the thing has under 20k miles.. without question seals and gaskets will dry out if unused but I can tell you that most of them are pennies compared to the major issues like the ones you had in your car..

tires.. yeah they cost a bit.. but if you really are getting your tires from ferrari then you are just letting them take you to the cleaners a bit too much eh? get your tires on your own and have someone put them on for you.. you don't need ferrari to do that stuff.. I take my ferrari to the dealer for all the important service.. oil changes + tires and even brakes can be done by any independant shop with experience on the car.. period..

If you are taking your ferrari to the dealer for everything that you deserve to be paying the premium IMHO.. don't take this as an insult but you can't come on here posting about how expensive it is to maintain a ferrari and at the same time tell me you are taking the car to the dealer for EVERYTHING it needs.. you are choosing the most expensive route possible in your ownership.. not to mention 150/hr is high even for ferrari.. a dealer in PA here does 130/hr..

 

I don't understand why depritiation is a cost to you, when you know that most anything people use depriciates in value over time. I guess people really buy ferrari's to make money later, how crazy is that. People just don't want to have to spend more of their money when they buy their next ferrari and almost feel entitled to have their Fcar increase in value after it has been used so you can get a newer model Fcar while spending less of your own money by trading in your old car. I know this is how many people here feel, it's like reusing the same money you used to buy your first Fcar.

 

Guys,

Thank you for this information. It is very valuable for anyone considering a purchase.

I think most guys will expect to spend a few grand a year in maintenance. Everybody also understands depreciation.

It is the big ticket and unexpected items that are usual for these cars that we need to get a handle on.

Things like brakes, clutch, tires are expected, but after how many miles and how much cost?

Next will come the things that would be a deal breaker for me, trannys, diffs and other stuff you wouldn't expect. Here we need to know if the previous postings were flukes, or if we should all expect this?

I for one am thinking about blowing my hard earned up to 200k on a 430 spyder. But if there is an over 10k bill I will be really pissed. If there is a 20k bill I don't want the car!

 

Since this was right up my alley recently I'll comment on this. I have a 2000 with 28k (granted it has over your 20k miles threshhold in your example). Just had the clutch done and they replaced the rear mount. Was told that it was very common for these to need replacing due to both miles AND the simple act of pulling the engine. I thought the latter seemed a bit fishy though... had wondered if they are use a chainsaw as the primary tool for engine removal.
Once the work was done, I did get to see the mount and it was indeed pretty hammered. They tell me it's due to the engine torqueing/twisting back there. Mine did not appear to be destroyed due to their incompetence, either.

Guess my long winded point is that engine mounts ARE known to be problematic to at least a minor degree.

Riffledriver, you have a thought?

 

While I know everyones experience will vary wildly, my first year with a 360 is running me about $10k in maint.
A friend of mine with a 355, again with his first year, will be in the low teens from what it sounds.

Your milage will most def vary and both of our cars needed relatively major repairs (mine was a clutch, his was valves etc).

Just adding some data points; take it for about as much as its worth.

 

My SL55 depricated 20K this year wholesale to wholesale. My turbo depreciated 20K this year. Then there is the opportunity cost on the money plus taxes and insurance. If you want cheap any high end car won't be. I owned my 2000 360 for a year and did not spend any money on it but knew I could spend 15K in a heart beat. My 2007 F430 has not broken but is under warranty. So far so good. If you are unlucky it can be rough. Put 20K aside for potential repairs, when you have spent that sell the car or decide it is worth it and put another 20k aside.

 

Please explain.

Dave

 

Many states have property tax on vehicles. There is a formula in Colorado based on a percentage of MSRP and it depreciates over time until gone at 10 years when all registrations are about $50/year/

Dave

 

Just a random thought here--while F Car ownership is obviously an expensive habit AND NOT FOR EVERYONE, suppose instead of buying that new F430 with a 2 year warranty, you'd have taken $190k (actual cost--not what you suggest you might have made at 4%) and plunked it down on "income bearing securities"--say, Lehman Bros or Fannie/Freddie bonds, or shares of preferred in Merrill, AIG or even Goldman, or even on a downpayment on a 2nd/Lake house (which probably comes with a new boat requirement ), or any number of other supposedly "safe" financial instruments.

Without really doing the "math", I'd guess you'd still be slightly ahead on the F430--down $55k on $190k or about 30%. Few things, short of T Bills, Gov't bonds and selected energy companies (emphasis on "selected") would have done better.

Why beat up F Car value so? Is it a luxury? Of coure! Is it an investment? No---its not supposed to be, but owning a new F430 over the past couple years seems as good or better than most "real investments".

What's the lesson? If you can afford it and actually want to own an FCar, AND ownership will not cause dislocation to your everyday life and real family/personal financial needs, quit sniveling and chose--buy one or don't. And enjoy whichever decision is the best one for you.

 

I am in midle group and i say life is too short and only one. Why to have money somewhere kept waiting for someone else when i die? I have also nothing against to take loan for car since sometimes is better to use cash for other actions. However basic things like home/family and some backup for future should be secured.

 

can I ask you WHY the engine was pulled on your 360? they do not need to remove the engine to do a major on that car.. was it for the clutch change? because clutch changes do not require the engine mounts to be replaced..

 

How much did they charge you for the clutch? 10k? please go into detail as the f1 clutch itself shouldn't be more than 3-4k

 

FWIW, one year ago I bought my 2004 360 Spider F1. It had 5200 miles on it and had received regular maintenance at a Ferrari dealer. Prior to delivery and as part of the purchase, the dealer from whom I bought the car did the major service (belts) and changed every fluid on the car. Yesterday, I took it back to my Ferrari dealer for its annual service as prescribed by Ferrari including oil/filter change, brake fluid flush/change, complete check-over, etc. The bill was $636.56. When I got home, the odometer read a little over 8100 miles. Clutch wear was measured at 6.7%, brakes and tires are fine and there were no other discrepancies (knock on wood.) I drive the car at least once or twice a week and do not track the car. I don't baby it, per se, but am not abusive either.

On the one hand, judging from some of the horror stories I've read, my bill was very reasonable. On the other, I had a little problem squaring the flat-rate for this service with the fact that the technician spent a total of about 2 hours with the car (shop rate is $135/hour) plus the oil, filter, etc. It just seemed a bit unfair although in fairness to the dealership they did point out that it just so happens I have a very clean car and that the flat rate covers adjustments, tightenings, etc. that my car didn't need but that it would have received at no additional charge had these tweaks been required. I can confirm that it is absolutely key IMO to find a car that has been regularly driven and well-maintained. That provides the foundation for a good ownership experience. One other sidenote: the dealership is a pretty long drive from my home. I drove 333 miles at speeds averaging about 80mph, occasionally ran close to 90 sustained and burned 15.889 gallons of fuel. When I got to the dealership, I honestly thought the fuel gauge had failed because it was still reading so high. Mileage for the trip: 20.96mpg. Made me cancel my Prius order.

 

Agreed.

 

don't i know it!!

 

Money is relevant and irrelevant. You are on this earth once. What you do to make yourself happy is your decision, but shouldn't be based soley on affordability or depreciation. My philosophy is not to make a spouse or 'significant other' suffer financially by your decision. If you do, then you abused your relationship. If you find yourself eating balogna for the rest of your life, and you haven't hurt anyone, and you love your Ferrari, then go for it! It is all a matter of perspective.

 

My father was the ultimate enthusiast and could afford his cars, but even back then in the dark ages it was a negotiation between him and mom when an expensive car was for sale. Mom wanted a vacation or piece of jewelery so they both bought themselves a treat. My mom reminds my kids that this was of course after they had cash to put all 5 of us through Yale and build 2 homes. My wife and I progressed from that but I never bought a significant car without her input and yes, consent. Her restraint actually paid off many times, especially in the late 80s.

So I'm wondering who you young guys are who can even think about financing a toy that has proven over and over again not to be an investment. Are you all single? Do you have savings in case of a prolonged job search? Your house paid down? Watching my kids pay for the grindkid's college has been an eye opener, it was expensive in our day but nothing like now when a year at Yale costs more than the average US family income. It's one thing when you're single, but when you're married the tug in family priorities will keep your car unmaintained in the garage. The birth of the first child will be the real wake up call that the only toy you can afford is the new kid and the garage space is needed for the mini van.

The prices stopped making sense for ally but the very rich a few years ago. I'm afraid the non rich who jumped in thinking there was money to be made are those who hurt in a downturn like this. It's just like people who poured actual cash into houses that may never again be worth what they paid because real estate never goes down for long. Right.

Buy these incredible machines when you can relax and enjoy them because you've taken care of business and family, not added debt.