Miura, the original supercar

The lovely 5102...
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Went for a short drive.

Phew...
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The Roadster at Pebble 2008.

Copyright UCP.
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No arguments from me on these thoughts.

Alberto

 

My understanding was 275 400's, 338 "S" and 150 "SV".

Making 763 and add the true Jota figures.

Where I get confused is some 400s became "S" models and some "S" cars became "SV" so does this make the same car count twice or even 3 times if the work was done at the factory?

"SV" that subsequently became "SVJ" also adds to the fog of counting.

Anyone want to clarify with caveats the real numbers invlved?

Bax.

 

Bax: Im going to stay away from the P400 vs P400S totals debate. With good reason. I don't think anybody including the works themselves know for sure.

But a couple comments if I may:

There are some cars built as a P400, which were upgraded to a P400SV by Lamborghini on the 'line. Its the SAME car so you must know this and total accordingly by not allocating two cars to your totals instead on just one. It will ALWAYS be the original car that was "modified by the factory post-production" and there is no other way you can look at it objectively. Unfortunately Lamborghini chose to muddy the waters by allocating some of these modified car with a new production number! There were reasons for this that I will not post on a public forum. Only at Lamborghini...

148 SVs were in fact built. Count the 7-10 SVJs WITHIN that number.

Therefore, the 762 Miuras built that is noted is the total number of production numbers. In fact, there are about 750-ish cars.

 

What's are people's best guess as to how many still exist? I'll guess about 550-600 cars left, on a completely unscientific basis, simply assuming a 20 to 25% attrition rate.

Alberto

 

I posted a similar question some months ago - having previously owned and been around DeTomasso cars of a similar vintage the conventional wisdom amongst the De Tom community was that after 40 years half the cars were gone forever.

When I ventured these thoughts and hoped a similar attrition rate didn't apply to miura I was assured by JS amongst others that it certainly didn't.

He felt if I remember that just about all cars made still existed exept for the well documented cases of the relatively few known total write offs (10-20 cars?) and even fire severe damaged items are known to rise phoenix like....

Dozens went into what are now or have been middle eastern war zones but even these are often documenteed decades later and still viable & often rescued.

Personally I'd be suprised if more than 650 survive but If Joe (NOT THE PLUMBER) says more I would't want to gain say that on a gut feeling - and I bet he knows where they all are.

What about those west coast chop top jobs made during the 1980's - are they known, back in one piece or just resting?

Bax.

 

I know of 3 cut Miuras besides the one-and-only. 1 has been returned to Berlinetta status. One is the car-of-many-colors that will decide any moment if it is a Spyder, an SV or a Jota thingy... and 1 looks like a P400 without a roof and belongs to an East-coaster who has a sublime original SV also.

Id agree 650 is a good number of cars that are in good condition but my reckoning is that the total number out there (rotting chassis included) starts with a "7"... Im not sure 'Joe the Plumber' would recognize a Miura if it ran over his foot!

I think in the 70s and 80s even the most un-sentimental of body shops found the Miura to be just too cool to throw away and somehow most were saved.

 

I posted a similar question some months ago - having previously owned and been around DeTomasso cars of a similar vintage the conventional wisdom amongst the De Tom community was that after 40 years half the cars were gone forever.


Bax, did you keep track of Mangusta's and Pantera/variants?

Got any hard numbers on Mangusta's you would share...sorry to hijack the Miura thread, but I noticed the comment and request a minor deviation

 

Mangusta = 401 built; 200 survive.Supposedly.

 

Either not as loved or as sturdy as Miuras?

 

I've said this before and people think I'm joking - the mangusta is the only car you can stand next to and listen to it rust.

Something to do with the galvanic reaction between the steel and aluminium or some such. Its just a big battery.

 

Hardly a unique feature among old cars.

 

OK but a 50% attrition rate suggests that the original product was REALLY crappy...

 

Folks,
here is an interesting website about special Miura...may be some informations will be controverted by some of our respectable fellows but despite that fact, many pictures are interesting and unknown. Enjoy : http://www.miura-svj.com/?lang=en

 

VIN #3006, engine #1091, Bianco/Nero
20th produced and 2nd P400 supplied new in France, through LAMY.
Sold by Parisian dealer Edgar Bensoussan (British Motors) to Johnny Halliday (Jean-Philippe Smet).
#3006 was used in the clip-song "J'ai crié à la nuit" of Johnny Halliday. Picture shows colors : white/black.
Later, Johnny crashed #3006 heavily on 28th August 1967 in Pau area (south west France).
Then, re-purchased by Bensoussan who sold it to Urman - Garage Mirabaud that sent it to Drogo in Italy for repair.
Rebuilt as 531st Miura according to factory list.
1973- Acquired by French owner.
September 2003, still with same owner, unknown guy...
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Agreed, I have said this before and all the pantera guys get their panty's in a wad, but this further proves my point. DeTomaso was a hack. The one car that held up was the Pantera but that was because Ford had a big hand in the cars design and build. Love the look of the Mangusta, but the engineering and build quality is fair ay best.

 

Joe, not one photo was taken of the original 4884 Miura prior to totally stripping its originality away for restoration? I had thought you had an active role in this total restoration. A simple pre restoration body panels open photo of 4884 would address this PPG sticker question.

This "no photos of the original Miura" is not making any sense to me. Am I to believe Gary Bobileff does not fully document the Miura he restores? Or am I to believe you personally scraped off the, never seen before, PPG paint stickers and threw them away? Or Gary or his crew scraped them off and threw them away?

It would seem more plausible that the Ferrari PPG stickers have been added to 4884 to please it's current owner. I have certainly seen this sticker added to a few Miura restorations over the years and they look very nice. Original Miura equipment, I think not!

Craig

 

Diplomat

 

http://www.huskyclub.com/tavpaintcolors.html

On your own website.

 

I like the Ferrari 330 PPG paint stickers! I think they should have been used on Miura. I applaud the first restoration painter who recognized the appropriate use of these stickers.

But sadly, there is no documented use, to date, of any paint code stickers on any Bertone built Miura. You and a dozen others would know this! That's why the "i do not have photos.....and i also threw the originals away" would not make any sense. Photos of several original applications are what we need.

 

Not sure if I am posting this correctly but here goes; This would probably be directed to Mr. Sackey since he has posted these pics. I spoke to Jeff S. reguarding these stickers and he assures me that they were applied to new cars. Having worked on several originals he claims that some were present. They are a particularly fragile sticker so longevity was an issue. One in particular was R. Edwards SV. If that car has not been taken apart at present for restoration then the sticker should still be there. Now I know that this statement in itself isn't going to mean anything to most here but Joe knows this mans credibility in the Miura world.

 

Speedy2, you are 100% correct.

And yes, Jeff S whom Ive known for 15 years (& who personally owns a Miura S and a Miura SV) is superbly knowledgeable and he is correct.

The problem is that there are some around here who think that because THEY don't know, then it cant possibly be so. They take this lame attitude to the point where the are disrespectful enough to insinuate that any of us would have the need to lie about something as simple as stickers.

The stickers were put on Miuras when built and proof of this and it has already been shared in several appropriate venues.

 

You still have not explained why they are on your own website if you do not believe they were used on the cars...