Jenson Button & 2009

I sure hope so.

 

Tony, I responded to you in the other thread about Button before I read this. Like I said, 2009 is a crap shoot. Certainly I would like Ferrari to prevail, but if not, I would love to see a driver of a Toyota, or Honda, or Sauber take the WDC.

I don´t Button has lost anything, I think he still has the ability to be a worthy WDC.

 

Ron Dennis would have done VERY well to have picked Button for Heiki's seat, instead of Heiki.... Button is one of the best drivers on the grid. The fact that you don't hear a ton about him is partly because he's in one of the (currently) slowest cars, and because he doesn't make mistakes... so you never see him on TV crashing out other guys or slamming the wall. he just get the job done, as quickly as his car allows.

Button in a competitive front-running team would be an absolute TREAT to behold.

 

+1000!

 

I have always thought Jenson Button was a true gentleman. He always seems so nice in interviews and what else he does.

 

Exactly, I don't get Ron, maybe he thinks Jenson is another David Coulthard. But Hekki has been a major disappointment in the other McLaren, we bash Massa all the time, but the one who deserves it is Hekki, at least Massa has kicked ass this season.

 

I don't know the details but I would assume it was one of a few things....

1) Flavio wanted Alonso badly... but nobody really wanted Heiki, so for Ron to get someone else, he would have had to convince them to take Heiki, which wouldn't happen without a lot of $$ changing hands. So it was just easier to do a straight-up swap - Heiki for Alonso.

2) Two British drivers on a British team does mean good things for the British, but may make it harder to get international sponsorship, so perhaps a little international flavor is a good thing in an F1 team?

3) I rate Button very highly... better than I rate Massa, thats for sure. I put Button with Kubica, Vettel, Rosberg any day of the week. Perhaps Ron does too, and he didn't want a repeat of 07 with two top shelf drivers?


Not sure if it's any or all of those things, but I really hope Jens gets a top seat next year, I'd love to see what he can do. If it can be in a Honda with Brawn as the man behind the car, well, all the better

 

With all the massive formula changes for 2009 and Honda's R&D apparently starting since mid 2007 already, I quite look forward to see Honda's pace next year.

Who knows. All these changes most likely won't save a dime, but will hopefully make the racing more interesting!

 

Ron didn't go after Heikki first. It's a fact that he first went after Nico, he offered Frank a huge sum of money for him, but Frank wouldn't let him go. There is also a video out there with Frank discussing the offer. Also, when Nico was unavailable they went after Vettel, but Red Bull wouldn't let him go. That left their 3rd choice, Heikki. I assume one of the reasons why he wouldn't consider Button is because sponsors don't want two British drivers on the same team.

 

OH MY GOD! DO WE REALLY HAVE TO HEAR THIS YET AGAIN???

Jenson is not the "driver he once was," BECAUSE he is the DRIVER WHO NEVER WAS!

I know you guys will blast me for this, but this guy was born to be a back-marker. His only win was a fluke.

You guys count Jenson's points, and I will count HIS TEAMMATE, Rubbens' points, or Heki's or Heidfeld's or FA's or Vettel's or Glock's or Webber's or Piquet's or Kaz Nak's or Coulthard or Bourdais.

Wait, that has to be wrong. Coulthard, Bourdais -- they can't be higher than Jens, because Jens is the next great driver, right? WRONG.

COULTHARD, GIRL THAT HE IS, IS AHEAD OF JENS? Oh, my God, it can't be.

Let the flood of criticism begin . . .

 

+1

please tell me why button, regardless of his ride, can never get out of Q1 quals: if there ever is a name I can count on to be in the back it's JB.

What?!! Does JB bring that makes him a good/excellent driver ??? The only time he won/on-podium was when everyone ahead of him had DQ'd out.

 

This sounds an awful lot like Coulthard's "This year is my year" talk.

 

Sonoma Rik and Smart_alek! I thought I was the only one.

OK, now let's stick together while we get blasted on this thread.

 

I don't know what to make of Button. When he arrived on the scene, he seemed like a potential champ. While on one hand I haven't see anything out of him that makes me stop and gaze, he hasn't made a fool of himself, either. I always feel that, no matter how closely we watch the sport, nobody knows talent better than the powers within Formula 1, those men who decide which drivers to employ. We all know contracts in F1 are worth less than their paper, meaning contractual rights are a non-factor in discussing why Driver A never found his way to Team X. JB has never really been a driver whose name was batted around during the silly seasons, and ultimately none of the top teams have ever enlisted his services. I'd love to see him drop into a top seat for a season--I believe he deserves it. But in my heart I see him as another one of the legions of 9/10 F1 drivers.

 

Regardless of his ride? are you nuts? 'HIS RIDE' is exactly why he can never get out of Q1. err, how long have you been following F1? a crap car is a crap car, Alonso, whom i regard as one of the top 3 drivers currently in F1, would'nt be able to do jack squat in that pathetic Honda. man, i hope next years car is competitive...


jeezers...

 

That's true, but let's look at it a slightly different way. This year Rubens has out qualified Button on numerous occasions, he's made it into Q2, he drove a hell of a race at Silverstone, and thanks to some great strategy he was on the podium. Rubens isn't considered a top driver, but yet he's been doing consistently better this year than Button. Now we can make the case that Rubens is driving for his job, and is ultra motivated, but the fact is you don't look like a top driver by being beaten by Rubens. We've seen Button get a more competitive Honda consistently on the podium, so the ability is there. On the other hand, he's been the darling of the British press for years until Lewis came, but he was never courted by Mclaren. When Mclaren fired DC, they didn't go for ol Jense did they? They went for Montoya. Frank Williams shipped him off to Renault, also for Montoya. Flavio then canned Jenson for Alonso, and he's been at Honda ever since. So there has been a pattern in Jenson's career for being passed up by competitive teams.

 

Button has been on a two year vacation, flying around the world with no pressure at all. Even if he is a great driver, I don't think he'll be able to secure a WDC after his lack of racing in the last two years.

 

That is true, BUT, IIRC Button has beaten every teammate he has ever had, including Barrichello every year - and by a large margin. This year is the single exception, and I don't know the reason. All I can say is that a driver being unhappy with the way a car works is not limited strictly to top-running cars (like Kimi with the Ferrari). I know Button is a much better driver, so I'm going to guess either the car just doesn't suit him, or Rubens has had a lot of luck (I don't have a list of all Buttons starts/quali, etc, to know how his race strategy has been compared to Rubens). I really hope Honda is very good next year, and I think a lot of folks will be eating their words

 

I don't think this is true... Jenson went to BAR after showing himself to be a very fast driver. At the time, BAR was pretty much a top shelf team, challenging McLaren and Williams. That was a top ride... they went downhill from that point, and if you remember, Williams was then on a run... Williams was winning races and IIRC challenging Ferrari for the WDC title.... and they were falling over themselves to try to get Button. Remember the whole contract fiasco? Where Button just went from Williams to Honda and they wanted to 'steal' him back...

In the end, he stayed at Honda and was seriously criticized for trying to jump ship and break his contract. I think he made a mental commitment to stick it out with Honda for the duration. I think Honda has an exceptional talent in Button, and they know it... they are also paying him very well (I think he is in the top 5 highest paid drivers). For Button, it's not such a bad deal... little pressure, can probably negotiate a long term deal if he wants, lots of money, and Honda has certainly had speed in the past and will likely get it again. Button tried to jump ship before and ended up going from bad car to worse car, so he probably remembers that and figures jumping ship now is like selling your stocks when they lose 90% of their value.

Honda has also made a lot of commitments to Button in reassuring him they are going to get back to the top - hiring Brawn is a major step towards that. And where else is Button going to go? Ferrari isn't a likely candidate. McLaren already have a #1. Renault has Alonso for the next year or two, BMW has Kubica and a great #2 in Heidfeld... all the rest of the teams are mid-pack at best, and the better ones like STR have guys like Vettel. So if a move for Button would be a move sideways, why do it?

I think he probably is quite in demand, but prefers to stick with what he's been doing, and hopefully it pays off - god knows he's waited long enough

 

I think the BAR decision was where it all derailed for Jenson. That was when he was a hotshoe, and in higher demand. BAR came within a sniff before selling and that was it, much like Jordan. While it's nice to see Williams sorta holding their own, these days it's hard for them to compete against the factories in salary. They've become more of a team that taps into the upstart/sophomore drivers with potential to blossom. The teams I use as the barometer nowadays are (no big surprise) Ferrari and McLaren. Behind them, driver moves are usually lateral at best, and you don't hear Button mentioned in sentences that include those teams' names. He seems like one of the stand-up guys in the sport--Heidfeld strikes me the same way--and I'd like to see him get a chance to succeed. But I don't think the bosses of the big teams see him in a light of specialness. I think he's considered in the same lot as Nick, Webber, Trulli, etc. Solid, but not a game-changer.

 

No sir, he was beaten by Ralfie in 2000, and Fisi in 2001. He then went on to beat Trulli, who was often quicker, and had more bad luck. From there he went on to out perform an over paid and under motivated Villeneuve, he then smoked Sato, who shouldn't have had a seat anyways, and then he beat Rubens who complained the car didn't suit him. Jenson is good, no doubt, but I don't think he's in that spectacular category, like Alonso, Hamilton, Kubica, Raikkonen, Vettel and sometimes Massa. I would equate him with Heikki Kovalainen. At the end of the day, he just has to hope that Honda can make a competitive car, and that they still want him for a few years.

 

The 2004 Bar was not developed by Button, and he had a lot of success in that car. When it comes to Button developing a car for himself to be successful in, he comes up short.
He also tends to write off entire seasons before they are even underway. Saying things like,
"We will have to wait until we get V8s, my super smooth style will give me an advantage! Than I will show them!"
"we will have to wait until traction control becomes illegal, so my super smooth style will show Schumacher who is boss! Than I will show them!"
" We will have to wait until 2009, when the new regulations come into play, with the new aero rules come into play. Than I will show them, with my super smooth style!"

 

Completely agree. Heikki seems like a very nice person, i dont mind him...But he's sooooo out of the picture this season, ESPECIALLY because he drives a Nr1 car, he's completely in the shadow of his team mate. Everybody forgets that he has won 2 GPs this season. I completely forgot he blew up his engine in japan. he's just never in the picture...Even in monza, his chance to let everyone see that he is worthy of driving for a team like mclaren, he fails to even remotely threaten vettel, who was in a much, much lesser car.

Button on the otherhand...while he hasnt done brilliantly this season (I dont blame him, his car isnt what it should be and i suppose he's concentrating on next year), he's been more in the picture than Heikki lol.

 

When Button was in those seats vs. Ralfie and Fisi, didn't he only run a partial season? I recall he was lent a couple of times for a partial season - although I am too lazy to look it up so I could be wrong

I think Jenson is above guys like Trulli and Fisichella and Heiki and such. I think he's probably at least as good as Webber, Heidfeld, Rosberg. I am not sure if he's as good as Kubica, and probably not as good as Kimi, Lewis, Alonso... I'd love to see him in a top car and see what he can do.

One thing I also worry about is that if some of these teams don't do well, will they stay in it? Renault has said they will only stay if they are performing. Honda is pretty much there to compete with Toyota. How long will Honda stay committed? And how about Toyota? The current financial landscape may dictate an exit sooner rather than later. I think BMW and Benz and of course Ferrari will stay in it for the long haul... how how long will Matshechitz (sp?) want to finance 2 teams? And how long will the Japanese OEM's want to keep pouring money into the hole? And what about Force India and those guys - surely they can't last forever in this climate? And for that reason, I hope Honda does do well next year, because I see the brass putting a stop to the expense if it doesn't produce results soon.