Changing out Fuel Lines

I am in the process of changing out ALL my fuel lines. So far I have found not less than 8, count um eight (8) potential fuel fires. Why I have not gone up in smoke I have no idea. Change yours too guys; just don't look, as mine looked just fine BUT THAT LITTLE VOICE SAID, "JUST DO IT." Glad I am. %^@*&%#( !!!!!!!

Anyway how did you get 26+ year old hoses off of the gas tank nipples w/o breaking anything? Got the old bad clamps off (WAFPITA!!!!!) but the hoses will not budge. Ideas?

Also how about a source for GOOD clamps? Any ideas?

Thanx in Advance,

mwr

 

Slit the hose with a razor along the length of the nipple (but try not to scratch the nipple itself).

 

I was afraid you were going to say that. Me and sharp objects, some thing/one is going to get cut. $%!#!!!!

Thanx Buddy. I'll give it a try.

How about clamps?

mwr

 

Words to live by.

 

That's really it.....slit and peel.

I went back with modern clamps or search Vintage or Ricambi for OEM ones, they rust badly over time.

Don't forget the fuel filler neck it has a honking big coupling all three of mine have been scary cracked, when removed....

 

I slit mine with a razor blade then gave a VERY gentle twist back and forth to break them free. BE CAREFUL another F-chatter broke off a nipple while removing his old lines.

 

Yup, good thing to change out, esp. after this much time. I let my 328 sit for 6 weeks during relatively cold K.C. winter, fired it up and there was gas all over the driveway. In addition to changing them out...drive the damn thing!
-Billy

 

Speaking of fuel hoses, anyone here know where to get the filler neck and crossover pipes in the correct metric sizes?

 

Not the correct metric sizes. I was about to order the OEM crossover lines from Ferrari at $90 a piece but spoke with my mechanic first. He suggested I buy the 1.5 inch yellow stripe from Napa. I used all Napa hoses for my replacements and have had no problems in 9 months. I purchased clamps from McMaster Carr.

 

Geez, sounds painful!!! Seriously I think this has been said many times before but 20 to 30 year old fuel lines need checking regularly.

 

words to live by, as bullfighter said.
that idiot was me!! as some here may recall, i broke off the nipple attached to the driver's tank that comes
from the fuel pump accumulator. oddly this hose was badly rotten as were several of the hoses over on the
charcoal canister. timing was none too soon.
afterall, gabriella is 21+yrs. now, why should she be immune to father time?
btw, i slit my hoses tangential to the nipple with a razor knife. that minimizes the chances of scoring the nipple.
DO NOT apply too much force or you will break it off as i did.
norma and gem hose clamps can be had from pelican auto and mcmaster-carr if you want to stay oem.

 

NAPA yellow stripe hose is silicone coolant hose if I remember correctly, not fuel rated. Best check on that and make sure you have fuel rated hose in that application.
Make sure for the vent hoses you only use SAE30R9 rated hose, we have been having big problems with the 30R7 turning to jelly in some applications where in constant contact with fuel. All of the Gates offerings in the larger sizes are SAE30R7 spec, the same as I have been having problems with. I am very close to having an answer to this while working with 4 different hose manufactures engineers regarding the problem and will report the findings here as soon as I have them. All indications are the problem is not with the hose itself but with the fuel we are getting at the pump nation wide. I will have tests back on this by the end of the week and should be able to identify what is OK to use. I am seeing the same problems with the OE supplied cross over hoses. We might have to upgrade the hoses beyond what current SAE spec says is alright to use if the fuel companies are playing with the mixture's.
I have only seen this problem crop up over the last 2 months and have been working daily to identify the cause since first seeing it. This will become a big topic of discussion as the more rocks I turn over the more issues I find regarding this.

Dave

 

Oh great!
What's it doing to the carbies, o-rings etc?

 

It's only a major concern when we do not understand what we are seeing. Once we know what to watch for and have solutions on the table to deal with it then its only another bump in the road. Identifying the causes has proved far more complex than I would have first thought but I think there are already solutions available to handle this TODAY. Tomorrow is a whole different issue as I have found evidence of tests now in progress now to complicate the issue a bit more. LONG STORY..... I will try to spell out what I have found as soon as I have more than one knowledgeable source that agrees on the issue.

Dave

 

After inspecting all my fuel lines, seems like this is the only one that is cracking, so I replaced it with a steel braided hose since it's expose to heat and debris from the road.

Pics shows before and after.
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On the 308 1.5 is too large...you need 1-3/8"

My kits have them

 

I tried the 1 3/8" the first time and there was no way in hell that it was going to fit. I tried everything to get that baby on. Then and only then did I call my independent, Ferrari trained mechanic. He told me to use the 1 1/2 " and clamp it well. He has done this and has never had a problem. My hoses are not going anywhere and I have not had any leakage problems in the 8 months after replacement. I do admit I would feel a little better if the 1 3/8 " hoses were on there.

 

Napa yellow stripe is not fuel rated hose. The problem with Napa is that they hire inexperienced people to sell parts. I got three different answers on fuel hose, three different times. I have been told that Yellow Stripe, White Stripe, and Weatherhead are all fuel rated, and then a day later with a different sales person told none of them are fuel rated. I left exasperated, and went to the local Cat Store for hose.

 

And this is the route of the problem. I am revising my hose kits now to include a marine grade fuel injection hose for the supply from the fuel pump and the other vapor recovery hoses...why you ask?...even the hoses that state they are for unleaded and 10% ethanol can deteriorate prematurely due to fuel mixes that are in excess of these ratings in some areas. The hose can handle the additives shown on the pumps...but they can end up being more in some regions. The crossover hose I supply are marine grade and recomended for submersed hoses. This is important to know since they are always holding fuel.

 

Great.
I wound up getting the blue high pressure fuel rated hose from the Cat place along with their 1/4" 400 PSI rated hose for the vapor lines. I don't know whats on my cross over pipe between the two tanks but it has a white stripe on it and is bulging. I have a feeling its not fuel line. It goes next weekend.

 

Peter,

Since we spoke last I have found this problem to be far more wide spread than first suspected. The marine grade hose should do the trick as the US Coast Guard wasnt screwing around when they forced the recalls back in the 80's and 90's and even though I have not yet identified how much wiggle room they left when specing the marine hose I am sure it was a great deal as a number of people died due to hose failures from what I have found in my research.

I started some experiments before we left on vacation and inspected them upon our return. It is true the new E10 fuel starts to seperate the alcohol from the gas in as little as 30 days (dont believe that the alcohol is limited to 10% as I have tested 3 local stations now where the summer blend went well beyond that and expect the winter blend to be far worse) and not all fuel blends are created equal, some seperate quicker than others. This presents a host of problems to be worked out as now I have to find out just how much water the alcohol has absorbed and has suspended in it. I have rough figures for this but can say beyond doubt that there is no longer any reason for anyone to use the HEET we used to put in the fuel tanks in the winter to prevent fuel line freeze, there is already more than enough alcohol already and it is holding a good deal of water in suspension right now.

Problems with the seperation of the alcohol/water and the fuel are a concern as the Coast Guard found that at the boundry layer between the two seperated components there was a highly corrosive layer that attacks aluminum and I can easily see this layer in the graduated beakers I am running the fuel tests in. I am working with fuel and chemical engineers to find the best way to address this. Will it be an annode, a chemical to prevent the seperation, get the car out for a winter drive to shake the fuel back into suspension...? All I am sure of at this point is I do not want to turn the key on a car after 3 months of it sitting stationary and have it start up on a mixture of alcohol and water that has seperated to the bottom of the tank!

I have been working with a major hose US manufacturer in producing Silicone coolant hose to my spec's. This is now done and I took delivery on the first batch early this week and all indications are this is the end all best I have ever used. We now have available all of the straight section sizes required for all of the Ferrari applications in a Matt Black, 4 ply, MilSpec hose that doesnt look out of place in the engine bay. As soon as I can photograph this I will post it to FerrariAds and make it available to all. All of the formed hoses are now being done in the same spec material and then the engineers say they can build a fuel hose that is beyond any requirement for any fuel mixture available today and beyond for the large sizes needed for the fill neck and cross over applications where a thin wall hose it a real asset for installation. I am also in the process of having the rubber components that mount the in tank fuel pumps in the newer cars being remade with this new rubber compound now. We have been seeing failures of these for 4 years now and I am just now understanding what the failure mode really is. I have this new fuel spec hose being tested in 85% alcohol applications right now to assure it is up to the task for the 10+% situations I have seen right from the pump. This is a nationwide problem as I have documented fuel hose degradation issues coast to coast while researching this problem. I suspect the alcohol is here to stay and have uncovered testing directed by the Feds where mixtures up to 20% alcohol is now being looked at.

My compliments to Peter for being proactive on this issue. I think we have a real problem here and do not see it getting any better in the future regarding the fuel we will have available at the pump. Upside is there are solutions now that we have identified that there is a problem and we just have to spec the components way beyond what the available fuels are today. Predicting what the future fuel will be made of is the new twist to the puzzle.

Dave

 

Dave,

It should be noted that when we discussed this it would cause problems with the supply hose from the water pump [fuel sits there]. I have had fuel in the car now for 9 months and it has shown no degradation. If what you are saying is true than it's the fuels that are fault...not the hoses I have decided to upgrade the hoses to compensate for the latest crappy fuel which was not an issue at the time we specified the hose. The new hose is also about 20% more costly. At the very least I will be willing to replace the supply hose at cost.

Those of you that have gone to NAPA and used their hose for the crossovers should also be aware of this problem. These hoses hold fuel 24/7. Inspect these after the winter

 

I think it's ironic that replacing fuel hoses is so critical I decided to help out the community with properely spec'd hoses and now we come to find out the fuel suppliers are lying to us about the mixtures they are selling. The upside is the most crucial hoses I supply are marine grade. But I can only see problems popping up all over the place from those who chose to go the route of "original" or "budget" hose installations. In the case of my hoses kits Dave and discussed the issue [and I beleive] he agrees that changing out the supply hose from the fuel pump will be fine, as long as the user did not decide to change over to a 1-1/2" crossver hose from NAPA as is the case in some applications.

 

Great research, this is invaluable information! Look forward to replacing the fuel hoses in my "new" QV with one of Dave or Peter's kits. Thanks!

 

Peter, not trying to add "fuel to the fire" but the hose kit you supplied me for my QV. had numerous hose sizes all rated 30R7 which Dave, in his original post indicated was inadequate for fuel lines and pose big problems. My purchase had nothing to do with going the "cheap" route, quite the opposite actually! didn't find this out until a week after replacing all the lines on my GTB. Cost of the hose kit + 20 hours = not amused! I also consider ALL the fuel lines to be critical, not just a select few.