Positive Pressure Induction System | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Positive Pressure Induction System

Discussion in '308/328' started by Verell, Dec 12, 2007.

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  1. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #51 Verell, Nov 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OOOOWAHHH!!!! Finally finished the valve spring compression tool. Must have 24-30 hours in the darned thing(Sean, I know you could make it in half a day, but you've got real machine tools). Anyway, tomorrow AM I pull my cam covers & put it to use.

    The tool is basicly a re-design of the F* tool shown in the QV manual picture it's lying on:
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  2. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #52 luckydynes, Nov 1, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008
    yeah but I can't do everything ;) ...

    looks very nice!!! ... but I do like my design a little better where you use screws instead of a lever so she's hands free .. like I told you on the tele it's no fun getting the keepers in on the bench ... couldn't even imagine it on the front bank. edit: maybe you could make the wing nut lock the thing down while it's compressed ... I'd gamble the factory tool might have that feature



    cheers
     
  3. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    okay ... I've only played with the U.S. injected cars .... euro cars cost too much ;).
     
  4. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    come to think of it is there clearance in there for a tool like that on the front bank? ... maybe on the intakes but the exhausts I don't know?


    cheers
     
  5. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Sean,
    At least with the QV there's reasonable front bank intake valve clearance.
    I'm not sure about rear bank exhaust valve clearance either, but it's not an issue for this project as I'm only shimming the intake valve springs. I'll know soon.

    As to locking it down, if I need to lock the handle down , I'll first try a U-shaped piece of coathanger with 6.5mm ID eyes bent into the ends. The U will hold the handle down when the eyes are held onto cam cap studs with nuts. If that doesn't work, I'll duplicate the pivot end setup with a sliding thru-pin & hole in the handle, that's more machining, but will work fer shure!

    BTW, I'm still not sure I'm visualizing the tool you're proposing. Is it a cam journal sized rod long enough to span between 2 cam caps, and with a pair of long screws thru the centerline at each valve position to compress the valve springs? Any chance you could sketch it up & post the sketch?
     
  6. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #56 luckydynes, Nov 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Something like this ... make rod long enough to be captured in 2 caps ... mill away the underside of the rod to give more room to work .. make a steel disc to sit on top of the retainer with a couple spotfaces for the ends of the screw to push against.
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  7. regisgtb4

    regisgtb4 Formula Junior
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    And clever tool configuration Lucky,great stuff,thanks for the posts
     
  8. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    You guys are just so talented -
    Tools rock!!!
     
  9. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Sean,
    It's pretty much what I envisioned. Would have been a lot less work to make than my tool fer shure! One down side is that once you have the keepers out you have to remove the tool to pull the valve springs out, will slow things down a tad. The QV version would have to have 4 bolts, a pair for each valve.

    A disc on the retainer would tend to restrict access, why not just insert Al or brass tips onto the screw ends & directly depress the retainers?

    Well, I have some 1" stock, so if I run into trouble I can crank one out in 5 or 6 hours.
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #60 Verell, Nov 9, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
    Made good progress this weekend. Made a metal pointer to mount on an alternator bracket bolt & marked the damper so I can tell when I'm approximately on PM1-4 from the engine's nose.

    Got the engine on TDC, locked up the drivetrain, then held the belts in place with binder clips while I broke the cam gear bolts & damper bolt loose.

    This week I hope to pull the cam covers & cams, then start installing the intake valve shims & new valve seals.

    Well, at least I I hope I'll be installing the new valve seals. Based on pix on the mfg's site I was expecting the aftermarket seals to come with a split spring band to hold them onto the valve guide. Instead they've got a solid brass band around the bottom. This difference is important because these seals are spec'd to mount on a 10.95 mm OD valve guide which is about 0.2mm [0.008"] larger than the 308 guide's 10.75mm OD.

    I figured with a split band spring they'd be compressed enough to fit. Now I'm going to be depending primarily on the viton to be undersized, and maybe the guides will be on the high side. I figure I'm down to P(success) = 0.7 or so (sigh).

    If not, the alternative is to buy 8 Ferrari seals at about $10.00 each.

    Will post a few pix when I get a chance.
     
  11. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #61 Verell, Nov 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The pace is picking up, the pictures show:
    - Relocated hose clamps to give SC clearance - Had to put the clamp on the large pipe then lay it into place!
    - Made a pointer for the damper so I can tell when I'm on TDC from the engine's front. It mounts on one of the alternator bracket studs. Just needs a small paint dot on the damper for TDC. Probably obsoleted with the digital degree wheel, but it's there just in case...
    - Broke the cam gears & damper loose in anticipation of installing smg2's new belt system.
    - Last picture: Rich Delcolle, One of the local F* gang, came over yesterday. He was a big help, pulled & cleaned the cam covers while I finished making the digital degree wheel & dial indicator mounting plate.
    - The prototype Digital Degree Wheel in use. Yes, that's showing TDC with 0.1 degree accuracy, try reading that close with a degree wheel that can be used w/o pulling the engine!

    When I pulled the heat shield to mount the degree wheel I discovered my front header had cracked at the combiner!!!

    - Dial indicator setup to find TDC & zero the digital degree wheel. It's hard to get a dial indicator's magnet base to grab anything on an Al engine. I mounted a steel plate to one of the cam cover mounting studs.
    - My PM1-4 mark was dead on, but I need to sharpen that pointer!!!
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  12. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Verell forgot to mention that I came by just in time for lunch...then left!! ;) Sorry Verell!! Thanks for lunch though!!
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    The digital protractor is really interesting! It seems like it would be easier to use and mount with a transverse engine than a big degree wheel.
    Is the mount difficult to make?
     
  14. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I didn't forget, I was just listing the photos & the work that got done. You didn't do any work. ;^)

    Well, have to admit that since I posted it, I should have given you credit for the photo you took of Rich & me.
     
  15. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #65 Verell, Nov 21, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2008
    Russ,
    It's a lot easier to use, & more accurate than a degree wheel. Altho, since it senses level rathar than rotation, I found that leaning my weight on the car would cause a 0.1 degree change in the reading as I was tilting the car! So I had to make sure I wasn't leaning on the car when I zeroed it & when taking readings. Probably a don't care as you can't read a regular degree wheel to better than 0.5 degree, maybe with a 18" or 24" OD wheel you could get to 0.25 degree.

    Not too hard to make, took about 3 hours to sketch up & fabricate. It's just a 16 gauge steel plate with a large hole & several small holes.

    If I were to make another one, I'd put a lip on the top with a lip on the lip to grab the groove along the protractor's top. Might make a sliding bracket to grab the groove in the protractor's bottom, altho tie wraps would also work fine.

    Hmm, who would be interested in one I ran a few off?
     
  16. RMDC

    RMDC Formula 3

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  17. regisgtb4

    regisgtb4 Formula Junior
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    Just came up,BIN $650 ebay #250 328 994 105 in NYC. My pay pal is screwed up so I cant BIN for my ITB project,thought you might like to know about it.
     
  18. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    if you get the e11v2 let me know, I have a few recent maps for a 20psi 328 with efi. loads of tuning, 3 weeks on the road and 120hrs on the dyno.
     
  19. regisgtb4

    regisgtb4 Formula Junior
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    I really wanted one of us to get it,first e11v2 Ive seen in 6 months on ebay and it was priced right and new.Just trying to help these great projects along,Im getting a good taste of just how much time,effort and expense is involved, my hats off to all you great project guys,thanks for your postings.
     
  20. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Well, someone grabbed that E11V2. I was going to get it for Pizzaman, he's going to need one for his project. Hopefully he's the one that grabbed it.

    Scott,
    I've got an E11V2 for my system, would greatly appreciate those 328 maps.

    BTW, is that 328 engine running the stock compression ratio pistons?
     
  21. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    drop me a pm with where to send 'em. stock pistons for now, the top end was completely re-done and the bottom end check'd fine so it went back together.

    I'm going to rebuild my 2v out to 4.2l and upgrade to EFI with the largest rotrex. trying to get as close to 1000hp as possible probably end up in the 800hp range with that setup. ofcourse the cascade effect will start and parts will start breaking, all the more reason to upgrade :D

    I'm also starting a quad turbo 550 project in January, but it's not staying in the 550!


    I tried to run the cam signal for sequential efi but it wasn't working out to well, besides at the fuel requirements we need it's not really advantages. kept it simple 60-2 trigger. the digital signal is not as forgiving in alignment as the hall-effect so it needs to be spot on, but it works much better, the analog convertor also sucks. so bottom line get at least 2 mag pickups from haltech you'll most likely kill one at first. I had one come loose and it was nicked by the trigger and killed it.

    what are you doing for spark? electromotive has some new pencil coils (COP) that are the perfect fit for our motors and rid you of the extenders. I went with the Ls1 coils and used the vette plugwires to also get rid of the extenders. at 20kv they tend to arc, I also went thru many plugs until I found the bosch silvers worked best and cost about a $1 !!

    I don't recall do you have an intercooler? I needed to add one as the intake temps were getting up to 250f+ at 15psi and up. i found the liquid to air one to be the most effective.

    looks good, you'll have fun when it's done.
     
  22. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #72 Verell, Nov 22, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2008
    Scott,
    eMAILed you my address (it hasn't changed since '86).

    I've been wondering how much my Euro QV's 9.2:1 CR might affect the maps i got from mk e. It's good to hear that you're running a 328 with the stock 9.2:1 CR (I'm assuming it's a US spec 328 motor), the 328 maps should be very close to what my car will want to run.

    I'll owe you one for these...

    My setup:

    Air-water intercooler in plenum (lysholm blower blows up thru intercooler then down the risers), with a radiator in front of each of the front wheels.

    Ignition: I'm going to move forward in phases, initially around 8 lbs boost with stock distributors. I've got a set of Honda coil-on-plugs that I'm planning on installing once I've got the basic installation sorted out & running. Same COPs that have been used in several other 308 COP projects.

    re: 800 -1000 hp - WOW!!!
    I though I was going to be leading the 308 hp race at the approx 400 rwhp that this system should deliver in final form. Looks like I won't even be worth an honorable mention...
    :^{
     
  23. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    No, it wasn't me.

    I saw it and was going to email you with some questions, but it was to late.
     
  24. Birdman

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    OUCH! D'oh!!
     
  25. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #75 Verell, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
    Chris,
    Let's get the questions out of the way so they don't hold you up if/when another deal pops up.

    BTW, That's the 1st E11V2 I've seen go for less than $1200 in 2 years, In fact, the asking price has jumped a couple of hundred since I bought mine!

    Ideally you'd get the "Haltech E11V2 Flying Lead Kit" as you'll need everything in it + a connector kit (P/N 30063). However, the ECU is a large % of the cost, & the flying lead kit is available separately.

    Be careful, don't get one of the PNP (Plug N Play) kits, the harness is fully made up for one particular car.

    See: http://www.haltech.com/ for descriptions.
     

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