Engine in F355 Belt Service...

This post was from a 355 thread and was curious about the pros and cons of such an endeavor. This is encouraged/recommended? I figure if it was as easy and simple as it sounds, everybody would be doing it...

Any Thoughts?

 

There are at least a couple threads already on the subject. Based on your post, I think you know the answer.

 

Before criticising the method we tried it here. It was such a bullschit method we stopped in the middle and pulled the motor. The motor was designed to be easily removed and it is. Many of the parts removed to do it that way are not designed to be easily removed and in fact are not. Not only that, many other aspects of the job get compromised doing it that way.

I have nothing against finding and using shortcuts to streamline a job and save money as long as it does not compromise the car or our work in any way. We do it all the time but we only do work we can be proud of and can stand behind. I will happily call anyone who does it that way a butcher and will do it face to face.

And as far as it saving $5000. That is a lie. No other way to say it.

 

Thanks Brian. That was the answer and reinforcement I was interested in.

 

What he said x2. At least now I know one name that is doing it.

 

I don't even have to say anything since Brian and Dave already did but, this is coming from someone who is not a professional, I have done 5 belt services on various 348 and 355 and there is no way you would want to do it with the engine in place(for various reasons). If I can do it and find that it is easy to pull/drop the engine then I wouldn't even begin to question the above 2 pros (not that anyone has so far but, this is Fchat). If the cost is too much or they can't do it themselves then it is time to move to a chevy or ford, hahaha

 

And if they are on the service records for a car you're interested in, now you'll know it was done this way.....

Wonder why the artwork on the belts though?

Me, I'm sticking to the full monty engine out, cam timing/reseal......

 

I can just about guarantee those guys have their dial guage and degree wheel in a dusty box, under the blanket, in the corner, behind the sofa, wedged behind an owner's car that one day when he gets the money the shop is going to build a big horsepower motor for. By the way I just dropped the motor on an Acura NSX...motor went pow! Boy working on Ferraris is easy. Two of us took twice as long as just me on the 348. These jobs are so much easier if you do them once properly.

 

That is known as a "Chinese Blueprint" in the aviation industry.

 

Just think how much easier it would be if you just took the Sawzall and cut that big 2x4 out of the way first.

 

As a non 355 owner, why is it bad to leave the engine in place? what is missed by doing it this way... Just curious?

 

Tom, other stuff that is not readily accessible cannot be attended to without dropping the engine.

Also, when the belt is changed, the valve timing must be set to do a proper job. Cam covers off.

A belt change ONLY is like wiping a used diaper out... immediate problem attended to but it still stinks.

+3 to RD and Dave's posts.

 

Leaving aside all the angst around this method (personally, I'm a believer in engine out) I'd love to know how they get the crank pulley off without dropping the engine? Surely there's not enough clearance to the x-member to get a socket in and then pull the pulley forward enough to release the belts from the lower sprockets.

Any ideas?

 

I'm guessing they they don't remove the main pulley at all and turn the belts "edge-wise" to slip past the back of the main pulley.

Are they doing tensioners on this job too?

 

YIKES?!

All the belt manufacturers say "don't do that" (twist) as it can damage the belt. The added markings on the belts look cool and all that --- like someone actually measured / indexed things But, I'm hoping those marks were made with chalk or crayon and not with some kind of paint or ink marker ---- as the belt makers warn you not to do that either (solvents in the paint / ink, etc.)!

 

Fudging is alive and well..............................

 

But the belt does not have to twist at all, so you have that wrong. The belt slips in the gap easily without twisting. The front pulley is pryed forward once the center nut is loosened, just enough to slip the belt through. So there is no twisting of the belt.

 

TACTICAL ---

I'm assuming you've done / seen this before?

Because, although that picture doesn't give us the right (from above) persective, I gotta wonder along with Bob --- how the hell are you even going to get at the pulley bolt, let alone wrench on it?? And, if there is just enough line of sight to get the bolt, how can the pulley come forward??? Sure looks like the cross member is in your way... at least from that angle...

 

Oh no mate, i am not going to be at the eye of any storm by commenting on the how tos or the rights or wrongs.
Just that the belts dont need to be twisted

 

About as clear and to the point as anyone could put it.

If you cant afford to do the job properly (engine out, valve timing, seals, water pump, hoses, etc., etc..) sell the car to someone who can or who is willing to do it themselves.

 

Hmmm....



If there is a high point to all of this, two years ago this thread would have gone a completely different direction. We have debated at length the need to set the cam timing and deal with a wide array of maintaince issues at this time. It appears the general consensus has turned the corner to doing the job properly. In doing so the reliability trend of the 355's that are properly maintained and upgraded will show over time as will the resale value of those cars.

It has been a bitter pill to swallow that we (collectively) have had to do the final engineering that Ferrari failed to do on this and other models and in doing so has turned off many owners. It has not been a popular position to take a stand on but I still think a properly sorted 355 represents one of the absolute high points of Ferrari's road car designs. The size, the shape, the sound, the HP/weight ratio... an incredible package when it is all working correctly. If there was a way to share the driving experience I felt with a couple of particular 355's, folks would understand the statement I just made. Few owners have, but once felt nothing else compares to it.

 

Now i think that is spot on mate. It is us the owners who like you say have done the final engineering in regards to maintenance of our 355s.
Take for instance the re-greasing of the 355 flywheel. Even though Ferrari main dealers pump the grease into the rear of the flywheel via the two holes at the back of the fly wheel, as instructed by Ferrari. The dare i say "recognized" procedure is that the flywheel is striped down to its basic components and then rebuilt with weighed and measured amounts of Klubur. But to be fair we dont hear owners say that the grease should be pumped into the rear of the flywheel because that's how the factory recommend it do we.
Now that method was honed by the owners and independents and passed on via mediums like the Internet.

 

Well said Dave, I have owned my 355 for 6 years and my experience has been great. Most negative comments that come up on 355's stem from neglect and lack of use. They aren't cheap to maintain even when you do the labor yourself.
Doing final engineering just allows you to be more a part of the machine. You guys think these have design flaws you should own a DeLorean. hahaha

 

Indeed.... That is often a wise position to take.

I really enjoy this site, and I can honestly say I like / appreciate (most of) the folks on it. But, why is it that sometimes I feel I should have my attorney present when posting?!

Personally, I've never looked directly at that particular aspect of the 355 chassis layout, so my question of "Can you really do that?" was merely out of curiosity --- wasn't trying to get anyone to hang themselves! If someone, who has direct knowledge, says that the pulley can be moved forward far enough, I'll certainly take their word on it.

They don't even have to admit that they've actually "done it" ----- just that they've "looked closely" at the geometry ---- wink, wink, nudge, nudge

Cheers

 

The center nut can be loosened and the pulley can there for slide forward enough for the belt to easily slid in there. The nut stays in situ but just undone part way.