Spoilers! Congrats Champ, and I must admit that I have been a big critic.

No he didn't deserve it at all. He got lucky because of a Toyota.

 

So I guess the other 17 races where he earned more points than the Ferraris don't count?

Massa only had a shot because he got lucky because of a Renault (Alonso never tried to pass) and because the FIA continually gifted him concessions to keep him close to Lewis.

Hey, if we're going to keep whining, may as well whine about everything right?

Or we could just accept what happened and congratulate Lewis on a well deserved championship win, and congratulate Massa on a hard fought battle to keep Lewis on his toes to earn that win. As I said elsewhere, it's too bad *some* Massa/Ferrari fans don't have 1% of the dignity and class that Massa displayed today on the podium... some don't, so we get posts like yours.

 

So according to you I am undignified because as a Massa fan, I wanted to Massa to win the championship and I'm upset with the Toyota for effectively messing up his chance? Perhaps you should look up the definition of what a fan is.

I watched the season, I know all about the other points, and I'm not liable for FIA's decisions just because I am a Massa fan. The fact is that it came down to this race, and that is the subject we are discussing.

So on the subject I thought we were discussing, Hamilton was out driven by Vettel, and effectively gave up the championship (for the second year in a row), but Hamilton simply got very lucky at the very end and only won because someone else screwed up. He gave it up again by driving worse then Vettel, who was in a lesser car. That is a fact. To me, this is not worthy of a champion. To me, Massa's drive was.

So to me, a Massa fan, in the context of this subject (the final race in Brazil), I believe that Hamilton did not EARN the championship at all, but rather became lucky!

Can you forgive me for having this opinion, now that I have explained it? Or do I deserve further insult and insinuation that I am classless and unintelligent?

Your posts that I have seen are well informed in their content, but I don't think it is necessary for you to pass out so many harsh judgments on your peers.

 

Massa WDC 2009

 

He also got luckly those dozens of times we saw him catch (in the on car camera) a car that was not at all under him in Brazil. Nope no skill there. It was ALL luck.

Then again I seem to remember someone else in Brazil benefitting from an 'unlucky' gearbox problem last year. How quickly we forget.

 

LMAO!! You account LH win all down to luck!! Your credibility just flew straight out of the window fella

 

You have a memory, that seems to leave a lot of things out when you post.

Last year, people picked on Hamilton because he tried to win the last 3 races instead of just playing smart, and picking-up enough points to win the championship.

So.... cut to this year, the team takes a few hundred revs off the RPM's of a 2nd race motor, and plays it smart to win the championship. Going for endurance over speed DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THAT? He wasn't out-driven by Vettel, he did what his team set-out to do.... win the championship! And they did! Hamilton followed a strategy set out by his team's engineers, and is now champion!


PS-
If you want to get mad at the guy who shook-up the race yesterday...blame God for when and how heavy the rain came. That is the "luck" that you speak of.
-No rain at the end..... no stop needed by LH to change tires
-Rain at the end..... better not be on slicks, or you will get passed
-Light rain....no tire change, or change tires and lose to those who didn't
EVERYONE HAD THE SAME SHOT TO GUESS THIS RIGHT OR WRONG

 

Oh real nice to here...

 

Another "fan" who says "you're not a real fan if you don't whine when Massa doesn't win!". I am a fan of F1. I have drivers I like and drivers I don't like. I don't color my views with a blind devotion to one guy, to the point that I perform the miracle of forgetting about 17 other performances, and claim the guy who did better in those other 17 is not worthy because a guy from another team didn't put up as much of a fight in a turn as I would like.

That's not being a fan, that is being a whiner, IMO.

Hamilton did not win the WDC because someone else screwed up at all. He won because over the course of 18 races, he did better than everyone else, despite FIA penalties that most in the sport consider unfair. To look at the last race and say he didn't deserve it is just silly. They detuned his engine - he took no risks. The whole point was to aim for 5th or better, not to win. That's what they set out to do and that's what they did.

What happened with Glock wasn't a screw up. Hamilton was 5-6 seconds PER SECTOR faster than Glock. Glock was on slick tires in the rain with a guy who is 15-20 seconds PER LAP quicker than him. Your beef is not that Glock "screwed up", your beef is that Glock didn't block Hamilton. You didn't want Glock to race fairly, you wanted him to be ****** and slide that Toyota over the track to whatever extent was necessary to hold up Hamilton. That's the only way he could have held him off - swerving left and right to keep a guy behind him who was waaaay quicker. Your problem is not that Hamilton won due to "luck", it's that someone else didn't dick him over the way you wanted.

All this stuff about "worthy of a champion". Gimme a break. Were Massas first 2 performances worthy of a champion? What about Ferrari pit screw ups, were they worthy of champions? What about Massa at silverstone? To say that a driver must somehow perform above and beyond all comers in every race is ridiculous. All drivers make mistakes (read: Lewis almost losing it at Brazil, Lewis crashing Kimi in the pits). That's not what it is about. What it is about is amassing the most points over the season. That's precisely what Lewis did. He afforded himself the luxury of not having to go balls-out at Brazil because he was leading in points going into Brazil. It had nothing to do with whether he put up a WDC-performance... he did, by virtue of the fact that he won the WDC.

What you did, IMO, is watched the race with great expectation, hoping for Massa to pull it off. For a moment, you thought he did - then you realized he hadn't and all your angst was directed squarely at Timo Glock, and in your mind, Hamilton only won because he was "lucky" and Massa is the "real" WDC. I don't think your further post was a clarification, I think it was just backing off from a former position that you came to realize was incorrect and untenable.

 

Did Hamilton have good luck, not caused by his skill at the end of the race? Or did he have bad luck? Did he get outdriven by Vettel and think he lost it all?

IF he had good luck, did that particular instance of luck cause him to win the championship (without going back 17 races - I am asking if it caused it from THAT MOMENT IN TIME). I am not forgetting about those races - I am assuming that they are a given, as they are in the past at that point!

Uh... I sure did not want that. It's funny how you keep insulting me, yet you need to put words in my mouth to prove your point.

Now you have to put thoughts in my mind to prove your point too?

 

Agree 100%. I'm frankly tired of whiners complaining about Glock, the rain, etc.

As far as luck goes, that is a ridiculous statement - you HONESTLY stand by by boiling the entire season down to another competitor choosing a poor strategy for 10 laps of a race? Championships are about endurance and consistency over an entire season.

 

Glock was on slicks, hammy won, get over it!

 

Glock is irrelevant. He was travelling 30% slower than all the drivers that passed him (Kubica, Vettel, Hamilton). Regardless of the line he was on, he was going to be nailed. His main focus would have been on just keeping his (virtually undriveable) car on the track and bring home some points. I doubt he even know what positions the overtaking drivers were in until after he finished the race.

As for Hamilton - the boy did very well and thoroughly deserves our congratulations for winning the F1 championship.

Ferrari also deserves our congratulations for the best overall team performance to secure WCC.

 

It amazes me how low some supposed Ferrari fans go. Are other drivers on opposing team's just pawns to help Ferrari at all costs, NO!! Glock being totally trashed for not helping out!! pathetic, Bourdais minding his own business, trashed for crashing into Massa beggars belief..

 

It's funny how many still thinks of an F1 car as a high performance road car. I don't think many thinks about the technical aspect of the situation. Remember Glock's tires are not only inappropriate for wet (even the intermediates were slipping), it probably suffering from huge drop in temperature too, causing it to lose even more grip.

I would relate Glock's last lap as almost us driving all season tires on ice.

 

The comments of the Mclaren team boss (Whitmarsh) seem to indicate that it wasn't all luck.

So, yes, there was strategy, a cool head, and certainly *some* luck involved. But *all* luck? No f'in way!

Those F1 teams have some really smart guys - I bet they can see farther than most of us. Let's give them a little credit.

 

Correct.