Well said Dave I agree 100%..........lets allow David to finish this project.......Im sure they will be well worth the wait. Ill be the first in line when they are.......
I couldn't have stated it better. I am also prepared to pay for a quality design/fabrication. Having started my own header project a couple of years ago I can tell you first hand that finding someone who is a master craftsman(or woman) is very hard to find, and even harder to find a shop that will actually carryout the project to completion. Here's just a tiny bit of what's involved AFTER MANY MANY HOURS of calculating flow requirements with engine modeling software. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well, I did speak to Jim - even paid them a visit. He actually said it was not something they felt confident to do, but he did give me the name of one shop (not in VC btw) that he said would be the only people he would trust. Having heard similar recommendations from a few other larger fabricators, I felt I was on to a winner with the company we have found. I am sure there are a few other shops just as good, but these guys are local to me. Relatively local anyway...
Just got my GT40 headers back from Swain Tech. It is not a "pretty" coating, as it is white and rough. Perfect for me, as it looks old school (I love the old white headers). It is THICK, and TOUGH. I will not be able to test its heat shielding for some time, but I can definitely say it is far from a standard "jet hot" or other ceramic type coating. If I end up replacing my 355 headers, this is probably the way I would go. Under $500. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have looked at the heat shielding on a worn out 355 header and if tubi is no longer making a wrapped header then I will probably buy a cheaper header such as the fabspeeds and just wrap them myself in fiberglass insulation and fabicate a thin gauge sheet metal heat shielding. It will probably take a couple of days metal working and welding but its no big deal. I don't see the the ceramic coatings as being an answer to the 355's 'heat' issues . I was at the local ferrari dealer and they were replacing the harness on this 355 (brittle/brocken insulation)......guess what caused the problem? unshielded aftermarket headers. The alternater was also fried (for the third time). Theres also all the rubber and plastic and brake lines, ect , ect. Theres just to much to damage. The only problem is......will the heat shielding on a fabspeed header cause it to fail as well?
I think the fabspeed headers are a good value. IMO making heat sheilds for them would be a bit of work to get a factory like result ....... if it were easy, fabspeed and others would have implemented sheilds from the beginning. That being said, I hope yours come out well . IMO I don't believe the fabspeeds will run as hot as factory ......... even if sheilded ...... for a couple reasons: -they use a larger 1.625" primary tubing versus the factory 1.5" ....... less velocity and more metal around the same exhaust volume -the tubing is a tad thicker than factory .......... thicker material takes more exhaust heat to saturate
I'm not sure you can say this. Without changing the tune of the engine, there is a certain amount of heat the is put out into the exhaust. It has to go somewhere. It either goes out the back of the car, or it transfers into the engine bay. I don't believe the fabspeeds really flow significantly better than stock. Actually, with the same rpm, a larger tube will actually have SLOWER flow than a smaller diameter tube. It has less resistance, but the gas flow is a smidge slower. Now if you start uppping th power, then you up the heat... And I don't think it is fair to say that the slightly thicker steel is a significantly better insulator. Steel is a wonderful conductor of heat. The factory heat shields use air as an insulator - the heat shields hold air around the headers, and the air is a much lower conductor of heat than the metal. If you don't use a factory-type shield - and I don't see why it would be hard to make one - then a good coating like the Swain Tech coating would be the best way to go. The coating greatly reduces the transfer of heat, keeping it in the exhaust gasses, where it goes out the back of the pipes. Now that I have the stuff in hand, I can tell you there is no comparison to this and the standard ceramic coating that I have seen done.
read my post as a whole...... I was describing fabspeed manifolds ........ "less velocity and more metal around the same exhaust volume" ......means the larger fabspeed 1.625 tube has more metal and 'less velocity' which equals as you said SLOWER flow ......... I could see how one could misinterpret it BTW .............anyway a smaller tube will have a higher velocity and will reach thermal saturation sooner with the same exhaust mass. If one is on full throttle for minutes at a time, a smaller tube will get hotter sooner. A larger tube will eventually get to the same temperature but not as fast as a larger thicker tube flowing the same mass of hot exhaust. I guarantee one will see a smaller thinner tube get 'red hot' before a larger thicker tube given the same mass of exhaust flow in its walls. Also I never said thicker tubing was an "insulator"..........thicker material will need more exhaust heat to reach thermal saturation given a constant heat input. Think of welding, it takes more heat to saturate/melt thicker material than thinner material. True thicker material will hold heat (heatsink) longer than thinner material ..... but thin stuff will saturate sooner ...... There will be line of guys handing you their unsheilded exhaust manifolds (including me) as soon as you prove it is not very hard to make a 'factory type/quality' heat shield ..... +1000
Exactly.....the enclosed headers are unable to dissipate heat so they fail, we've seen pictures of stock headers where the tubes reached a semi-molten state. The factory set-up is borderline marginal, anything goes wrong that will cause increased EGT and it's over the top. What we really need is something similar to early Porsche heat exchangers where there is an air inlet and outlet on the shielding. Lacking that we should look to better air flow in the engine compartment. That said, air flow has little effect on radiant heat, that's where reflective shielding of components comes into play. As is often the case there is no one simple answer, we have to use every option available to help engine compartment components survive. My personal belief is open headers (coated or not, makes little difference), reflective shielding where ever possible, and I'm looking into increasing engine compartment air flow.
I'm not sure what the early porsche heat exchangers heat shields look like........does anyone have a picture of this?
I have said it before, "TUBI" headers. Spend the money. They have done years of research and they are made the next town over in Italy. Not the best customer service and not the cheapest but this is a critical piece to the engine. Italian cars deserve Italian Parts.
+1000000000000000000 "Exactly.....the enclosed headers are unable to dissipate heat so they fail, we've seen pictures of stock headers where the tubes reached a semi-molten state." My thoughts too!!!! I have a customer with Fabspeeds and only an alternator shield that was fabbed, he's driven it 4000+ miles with no heat related issues. He does have a challenge grill that helps remove heat from the engine compartment.
The rebuilt manifolds from QV London do not fail, and they reuse the factory heat shielding. The reason the factory ones fail is due to the wall thickness of the metal, not the fact that they are shielded. Ferrari put the heat shielding there for a reason, these open tubular headers just increase the engine bay temperatures too much.
YEP +1 on tubis! +1 on uncoated unshielded Fabspeeds....I know the car that engine fixer speaks of, I made the alternator shield! No issues! Not too bad for a bunch of: Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have 40,000 km's on my original manifolds and so far they are still good. I do have a challenge grille which I think helps. Anyway when I do need replacements they will be QV's or Tubi's since they have the proper heat shielding. Can those of you who have the QV's or the Tubi's tell us how long (years) and mileage you have had them for so we can get an idea of their longevity?
Greg, you are right. Although in a previous post, someone actually called Tubi and they told him they are no longer manufacturing these systems. What a shame!
I called the Tubi N.A. 1-954-941-7689 and was told they have dropped the production of the manifolds for F355; however, some venders are still able to get them... I am not sure what is true!
I cannot comment on Tubi, but I have heard the line that "they don't make it anymore" from a lot of italian manufactures of previous Ferrari models. First you have to contact the manufacture in Italy directly. This might require someone who speaks the language. You can also talk to the dealerships and distributors in Italy that service Ferrari's i.e. Rossa Corsa in Milan. It takes a little work but you will find it.
That's good info. My system is O.K., but I might get a set of Tubis for the inevitable. Maybe we should figure out how many people might be interested in a group purchase and then we could contact them. Better price/better buying-power. Might be worth a shot.
I found a set listed here http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/tubi-style-f1-thermal-insulated-exhaust-manifolds-ferrari-355-52-9699-p-55439.html a bit pricey but they do seem to be available. I also found they are available here http://www.scuderiasystems.com/prod-tubi-ferrari-355.html but they did not list a price. I have asked them for a price shipped to Ottawa, Canada. If they get back to me I will post their response.
