930 or bust. If it doesn't threaten to kill you when you lift off the throttle its not a real Porsche. I kid, I kid. I love em all. Even the 914s with Chevy heart transplants.
I am not a gearhead nor do I claim myself to have extensive knowledge in mechanics. Nevertheless, I prefer a 993 and a 964 also. Reasons ? Just personal preferences and biases. Here's few pics. The white is a 1997 Turbo S model RUF conversion (called RUF THR here in Japan, which is equivalent to RUF Turbo R). The silver one is a 1994 Porsche Turbo S Flatnose Exclusive. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The last "real" Porsche would be the mid engined four cylinder prototype 356, or the first 356 coupes.
As far as your personal preference, and some others, are concerned...yes. In actual fact, this is one of the most absurd statements ever made, perpetuated by moldy figs that always see yesterday through rose colored glasses and condemn today as a pale shadow of yesteryear. Puh-lease. Maybe you and my uncle with the Model T can get together and compare notes. Technology marches on. Deal with it. <donning fire suit to withstand obligatory tongue lashing by outraged old-schoolers>
Porsche has built some amazing cars. As someone that grew up in the 70's and 80's I was a car person but never into Porsches until my first ride in a 1982 911SC, that had been traded in on new 1986 911 Turbo. I was a teenager and my Dad was about to test drive it. We pulled up to a light and some kids in a Mustang wanted to race it. The salesman said, "We need to get out of this traffic situation." As soon as the light changed he punched it and we were gone. The sound of the engine and feel of the car was amazing. Over the years I was lucky enough to drive a Carrera, 944, 928S, and an '87 911 Turbo. The 928 and 944 were very capable great cars. You could drive them all day long, anyone could just jump in, drive them and feel like a hero behind the wheel. The 911s were obviously a bit trickier to drive with their rear weight bias, but soooo rewarding and fun to drive. The 928 was nice but bigger, less nimble and didn't feel as much like a sports car. The 911 felt like the right ingredients...well built, quick, agile, fun, and I loved that very distinctive air cooled engine sound! The classic air cooled car is like a distinct recipe with all the right ingredients. If I had time and space for another fun car, I would not consider anything from Porsche that is newer than the 993. The 996 and 997 may be faster and have more powerful engines, but they just don't do anything for me (especially the 996 with its Boxster front end). I think in time the 996 will be similar to the 964 (which is largely overlooked as many people prefer the looks of the classic 84-89 Carrera 3.2 or the clean looks of the 993 vs. the bubble bumpers of the 964). Porsche can build faster cars today, but there is a feeling that is just not there in the current Porsches. And as for Cayennes...sorry I don't need a superfast soccer mom or soccer dad car. If I were getting another P car it would be an air cooled 911. Although, if I had a bit of extra room in the garage I'd also pick up an 89 944 Turbo S...not an air cooled car but a lot of fun. Best regards, Dino
OK, I will confess it here first. I am seriously looking at a 2004 996 GT3. No, I am not planning to get rid of the old 993 Targa - rather the 2004 Z06 Corvette. The GT3 - both 996 and 997 versions are real Porsches.
Since Porsche stopped making real Posches anyway, can we please let go of this ridiculous rear-engined platform (okay, keep it around for the nostalgia crowd) and embrace mid-engined as the platform of choice? That way maybe our GT race cars could actually outpace the F430s in ALMS instead of relying on the F-teams screwing up. All the kudos in the world to the Lizards, but we all know which cars are faster; last season (and glimpses in this season) were ample proof of that. How is this post for a turd in the legacy-love-in punchbowl? lol The heat is really going to be turned up next season! You have to expect the Bimmers to come charging hard.
My favorite 911 is the 993 Turbo S. I like 993s more for looks than anything. I was heartbroken when I cought my first glimpse of a Boxster in a magazine, and saw the new headlights. I was more heartbroken when they applied it to the 911 in 1999. I drive newer Porsches almost every day, and they are good, fun cars, but I prefer the sound and feel of the older 911s. They feel more like a sports car than a fast luxury coupe. Also, I like the classic 911 windshield wipers, which changed when the 996 came out.
Over the years, very few cars have done as well in so many different forms of racing as the Porsche 911. If you really hate rear-engine cars so much, then just buy one of the dozens of brands that do front or mid-engine cars. I think Porsche deserves great credit for sticking to their rear-engine design for the 911...it is truly the last of what used to be quite a number of rear-engined cars.
But with all due respect, '89/90 was when the real "break with the past" occurred. For the 87-89 911's, Porsche had finally gotten the 911 they had been trying to get it for the previous 25 years. '90 w/ pwr steering, brakes was the break for me. That's when the "slippery slope" effort began to make the 911 into a "more luxury/sports" car. 993's are beautiful to behold, but power steering/ brakes, spoiler, airbags, etc...the "slippery slope" had already begun. Havin' said that... The 997 is the best 911 since '89.
One could also say that you are completely wrong and that the 993 was the first of the cars to come after the Japanese assisted Porsche in their recovery and taught them to make their cars more efficiently using robotics and cheaper construction methods. Aren't their Harley motors air/oil cooled too? The Carrera GT sounds pretty good and seems to move along nicely as the real deal.
That seems uncalled for. If you disagree with jlonmark, why not back up your opinion with a strong argument for your position rather than resorting to name calling? Best regards, Dino
Or I could say getrag supplied Mutsubishi with their transmissions. The 933 has 350 man hours while 996+ cars had 150 to build if anything quality has regressed. There is more japan all over the 997 than the 993 go read the window sticker.
HAHAHA Give me a break. Telling someone whom you never met and know nothing about that they need professional mental health counseling is not rude? Unbelievable.
Perhaps my comment was uncalled for but jlonmarks observation is indeed idiotic. As for as I know, Porsches are still manufactured by the original Porsche company which is still located in Stuttgart, Germany. If you want to say that my 2000 911 C2 is not a real Porsche that is fine with me but to say that the 993 was the last of the real Porsches is asinine in my opinion. If you want to say that you prefer the older air-cooled cars over the newer models great, but to say that the new Porsches are not real is nothing less than ridiculous. This is to say that the 996 GT3, 997 GT3, 997GT3RS, Carrera GT, 996 & 997 Cup Cars, 996 & 997 TTs and GT2s, etc. are not real Porsches. Apparently, jlonmarks believes that Porsche should have stuck with the dated and antiquated air-cooled technologies at the expense of performance. Dont get me wrong, I have driven several air-cooled 911s and I am a huge fan of them but they are no more real Porsches than the cars coming off the assembly lines in Stuttgart today. If I am not mistaken, the 911 won every major sports car racing series this year in the U.S., a feat which would not have been possible if Porsche had continued to use the air-cooled engines. In fact, Porsche themselves admitted that in order to further develop their cars to reliably produce more horsepower, they needed to switch to water cooled engines for the 911. This water-cooled Porsches are not real Porsches argument is getting very old in my opinion and it only serves to diminish the marque in general. Dino944, I have heard some Ferrari enthusiasts proclaim that certain Ferraris, such as the 308-328 series and the Mondial, are not real Ferraris. How do you feel about that statement? Do those types of discussions prove helpful to any Ferrari enthusiasts?
Hmm... the last real Porsche? Agree that the 993 is absolutely the end of the pre-tech era. Maybe psychologically or sentimentally. Very much like the 550 was the end for Ferrari, before the 599. That would be like saying a Scuderia isn't a real ferrari as it's NOTHING like an F40-- a true old school 'rarri. But does that REALLY mean the 993 is the last real Porsche? I don't think so. With 100% certainty, I say 996 GT3s are the real deal. That said, I think we're missing something else. I recently got a 2008 Cayman S. Talk about true sports car. Other than drivers aids, the Cayman delivers one of the most pure driving experiences I've had sans 993tt. It's light, sprite, functional, and FUN. It's a very simple car that rewards the driver with exactly the effort put into it. With the right engine (X51...), it could one of the greatest sports cars out there (though I say it already is, that's in the eye of the beholder). Moral of the story: Nope, no way no how is the 993 the last real PCar. I think the 996's got away from the roots a little bit and the 997s are gone completely (cooled seats in a Porsche, wtf!); but there are the niche cars that permeate the "not-so-Porsche" barrier since the 993. GT3, GT2, obviously CGT, and I believe Cayman (maybe the closest to a modern old-school Porsche out there). -Joe
Did they give a little more power to the silver over red caymans? It looks a little faster. Awesome car Joe.
993 is the last air-cooled Porsche and that was a characteristic that had defined the 911 to that point. That is what this thread is about and it is a valid question. We all know why Porsche had to go to water-cooled and with that the increase in weight and bulk. I have owned many of the Porsche's that you refer to and I disagree with many of your comments. 997 is a fantastic model and the 997 GT3RS (which I owned) is superior to the 996 GT3RS in every way. Advances in electronics and suspension during the 4 years are simply stunning. I owned a CGT and it cannot be benchmarked against 911's anymore than an Enzo can be benchmarked against a CS. Supercars live by different rules. IMO 996 is an unfortunate generation across the model line which was vastly improved upon by the 997. Happy to hear that you are so pleased with your Cayman S. I have not driven one but hear nothing but positive comments from those who have
