The funny thing about Clarkson and the Top Gear piece on the 8C is that it made me love it even more. I havent driven one nor have i heard one but it is one of those cars that just look sooo good. Is it comparable to any Ferrari in handling/braking and all around composed feeling ? My dad said 2 are availabe through Miller motors.
Oh and what do you feel about the 33 Stradale ? Same spirit as the other cars in your garage or would you have to have the race cars ?
+1 The 33 Stradale is strikingly pretty. Incredibly clean lines with minimal panel gaps. Whereas the Ferrari 275's long headlamp covers (in my humble opinion) are a flaw, the long headlamps on the 33 Stradale are very much a plus.
Glad you got it, Jim. I think I'd love it. Not enamored of Granturismo. Weight difference is key, I'm sure. I'm still curious how this fits into the mix though. The production limit and price puts this car in a unique place, and it doesn't fit with Alfa, unless they're trying to use P3/2300/2900 cost and exclusivity to resuscutate a long dead brand here. Not up against a 599 in many ways. Both cars are far different from a Scud or "Poseria" . Passed on 16M. I'm an engine guy, and 599 engine is outstanding. Appearance is taste, but it ain't a turd, Sherlock. 8C engine is also a great derivitive of a great motor. But it isn't a 12. You don't have a 206 Dino SP or a 248, you have a P4, 412, 166. Alfa does 8's/6's. Are there really 2 available Jim/Andrew? I'd play on a black one if it wasn't silly money in this market. PM me. +1 Alex. Blowing smoke about a 599 when one hasn't driven one is moot. Overhang is not as bad as my Maranello/SA though. Just rubs the air deflectors by tires, and I scraped underside of nose on a curb once at new office. Have driven 20-30+ miles at or above 190, and it really is pretty damn amazing. A/C on, iPod in, and stopped at Lowe's on way home. Multi-use, and plenty of room in TX. Use her in health Jim. Lee
I do have a 206S Dino and actually found it better suited for the Targa Florio than my bigger P 3/4 with her 12 and to me that's the main difference between an 8C and a 599. It's lighter and more nimble which I like. I drove a 308 GTBi as a daily for years (85K miles) and I also drove a TR as a daily for years (155K miles) and in NYC the 308 was much more enjoyable. On the Targa Florio the Dino was much more fun to drive. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Jim: OK, not the show Dino, I forgot about it. Different horses for different courses. A 312PB vs.a 206 and a passo corta vs. a 196 Dino much different result. I had a 308B (miss that car) and a Daytona at the same time, and the Daytona was lumbering in town vs. the 308, I agree. Never owned a late model TR, but never liked how they drove. From my references, the 599 is the most nimble 12 in many years. Not as sharp as a Scud/430, or an 8C (not driven one). Probably weight and polar moment. This thread is a "stick vs. F1" analog methinks. Like them both. Mile it up. Lee
The 599 is a great car with a great motor(nothing sounds better than a twelve), but it is not Ferrari's best effort. The Alfa 8C is the easy winner as far as looks go. Its more classic Italian. I just wish it was smaller. I know taller drivers like the size. As for the 599, it has a Japanese look to it. It reminds me of the 1990's Japanese Supra's mainly in the aft part of the car. The 599 is still a superb car, but not due to trend setting or classical looks. Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2009 model/photo contest-Chicago
No question the 599 is a great car simply a different car than the 8C. One thought on front overhang. On a race track it really doesn't matter and does help with aero but on winding roads especially crowned ones it makes a difference. One thing we really tried to do was shorten the front overhang on P 4/5 vs The Enzo and we did by several inches. Look at this photo. When cranking note how left front tip of overhang gets close to crown. On an Enzo I believe you'd touch. Best 2 U and Yours! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Just ridiculous. There is nothing Japanese about the 599. If you want to see the inspiration go to the photo provided by malclmb where the 275, Daytona, and 599 are lined up in profile and you will see some of the classical elements of the "NEW" design which is what it is. The 8C while beautiful is on the other hand completely lacking in any originality. It is an unabashed synthesis of the T33 and Diva. If you look at the side by side photo in the velocetoday article, the 8C looks cartoonish next to the T33. I am totally biased as I do not care for retro designs at all as IMO they should be left to the relevancy of their times not brought forward wholecloth to the present. As an owner of a 599 all I can say is that it is the best GT car Ferrari has ever produced, and it will outperform most sports cars including the 8C under most circumstances. The 599 is not a car you can get comfortable with on your first test drive. It is big, has plenty of weight and mass, and one needs to learn its behaviour under variying road, speed and power delivery conditions. Once learned, however, its limits are beyond most drivers' capabilities, including mine. I had a "test" drive in the 8C in Modena, and it is really nimble and quick. However, its ride quality is too harsh for everyday driving on everyday roads. If comparisons are to be made on performance, the 599 is on another planet from the 8C. The 430, although a different package, is a much closer kin to the 8C given their relatively equal weight and power. Even there, however, the 430 is a quicker car.
No doubt that the 599 has a better motor and chassis that the 8C. I was talking only about styling. The rear and roof shape on the Supra and 599 are what I think look alot alike. Sorry to put a Supra photo on this Ferrari thread. I just wanted to show what I see. The Supra is not 1/10th the car. In person its even more noticable. TT Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have lots of experience with the 599. I am vary familar with weight and mass. Here is the simple bottom line IMO - the 599 is deadly boring at legal speeds. It is too big to flick around on normal roads at normal speeds. Is that a flaw of the car? Depends on the usage that you have in mind? For me in the real world that I live in my usage does not make the car enjoyable. That is why I do not have a 599 now and will not buy another one even though the price is plummeting and I am being made attractive offers with increasing urgency. Completely disagree that the 8C is "much closer kin" to the 430. I also have lots of experience with the 430 and the 430 Scuderia and will be getting a 16M. Who cares about weight and power in a touring car like the 8C? It is about feeling and emotion. To paraphrase you, 430 is on another planet from the 8C
Styling-wise, the 599 is clearly a Supra-derivative. It is even more obvious when you see them side by side in real life.
Not 1/10th car, you say? That's being awfully kind to the 599. Unmolested low mileage Supras still trade at 3/4 MSRP. Agree on all your other points.
I'd say the Supra is derivative of previous Italian designs. There is nothing original about it, so to say the 599 is derivative of the Supra is too agree the 599 derives from earlier italian designs. The reality is that there is very little automotive designers can do with the basic design of any car that will be entirely original. In the century of car design that we can look back on everything that you can do on a rectangular four wheel platform has already been done. Even the magnificent, one-off, clean sheet design of Jim's P4/5 is derivative (intentionally I guess) of the P3.
OK, I didn't realize that I was in agreement with you even before you posted... That's true. But that's why I love Lambos. No one will ever see any resemblance to a Toyota or any other car that is on the road with any frequency anywhere.
So why are you in a thread like this except to troll? Please point out one thing recognizable from Fiat in a 599 interior, BTW. Or from a QP interior. I can spot Audi in Bentley and Lambo without trying, harder in Bentley. Your Gallardo if you have one shares an entire chassis with the R8 (prettier car BTW). At least they could have used A6 bits. So, you don't like 599's. There are threads here comparing Maranello to Supra. Diablos had 300ZX headlights (really great lights). LP400's look like LP500's and on and on. SFW. I like Lambos. Some of their narcissistic owners, well hope they find help. Or a nice mirror.
From the sublime to the ridiculous. Pininfarina derived the 599 from the Toyata blob. Believable Story. Troll indeed. Sfumato, 410SA- You are a saints for even replying to those infantile posts. Taz Terry Phillips
I agree with you. I only wanted to point out that they have a similar rear and roof. Car designers do copy each other. I dont agree with the posts that run down the 599. It is a fine car. The Toyota is 1/10th the car. Just look under the engine cover and anyone will see that. Ferrari is a fine enough manufacturer to allow critical veiws to be heard and listened to. After all, Ferrari is the finest maker of sportscars in the world. Lamborghini has no racing record worth talking about other than a string of F1 cars that blew engines every 10 laps and a few weak GT car efforts. Lamborghini's are very nice cars also, but they are not as refined as Ferrari's in general. As for Toyota, they should stick to minivans. They will never win an F1 race until they move their motorsports base to England or hire more Englishman to run it!! TT
With regard to the 8C: all 500 coupés have been built (and delivered). Mine is 5 months old and I have several thousand kms. It is a REAL car in the sense that it is truly gratifying to drive. A little soft for track use (would need some geometry mods - if you wanted to do that), the noise is UNBELIEVABLE, the quality of finish leaves you speechless (one says to oneself "when they want to, they can!!) and it is simply GORGEOUS!!!! Mine is black obsidian with "dark shining" wheels and grey leather. Best
You have your world and I have mine. Beyond that I don't really understand your point. The 599 is deadly boring at legal speeds? Why don't you try the Race setting and a manual instead of an F1? I think you will find the car challenging in every respect. Regardless, the 599 is usable as a daily if one wishes and is incredibly comfortable as such. Additionally you can take it to the track as I have many times and really let it out. In either case the car is in its element. The scale of the car has to do with usability including a spacious trunk and it was designed very much with the US and European market in mind not HK.. The fact that Ferrari can extract such great performance from such a large package is truly commendable. I believe that the comparisont of the 430 to the 8C is more relevant because the 8C is much more of a "sports car" than a grand tourer and thus more akin to the task set forth by the 430 than that of the 599 which is a grand tourer in the extreme. Finally, price has nothing to do with anything. All these cars are overpriced, and the reason I own a 599 is so I can drive it, not watch it appreciate or depreciate. The fact that it may be going down in value does not lessen my enjoyment one bit. I hope that by doing so it will find new buyers that can experience its greatness. There is a reason why a number of magazines including the Porschefied EVO named it car of the year, and Gordon Murray called it the best sports car design at the Geneva show both at its introduction in 2006 and in 2007 where the 8C among others was also displayed. As to the Supra argument - whoever thinks that knows absolutely nothing of the history of car design. The 599 flanks go back to the GT0 and 275, where I'm sure the Japanese found their inspiration as well. At least for the 599 it was an in house source which is how it should be.
