The "Euro" debate

Gang, I'd like to hear from anyone who's had or currently has a Euro 550 or 575. Mechanics are also welcome to chime in. I might be looking at one next week that's very well priced.

Here's my take, but I'd like to get yours: We are all aware of some of the stigma attached to the Euro cars. This is not new. My sense is that much of this is somewhat ill-formed and antiquated and left over from the days of 512BBis (which were all grey market, let's not forget) and 288GTOs (ditto) in the mid-1980s when there were some real rag-tag practitioners out there doing some questionable things to these cars. Nightmares ensued and the rest is history.

I would submit that today most Euro 550s, 575s, and the like are indistinguishable from US versions assuming all the DOT/EPA work was done by a competent shop and the car has been well-maintained in a manner no different from what you'd expect from a US version 550/575. Anyhow, again, this is my sense of things. I could be wrong. If, so, please correct me. No hard feelings.

I have also heard from others that the Euro 550s (in particular) might also be a little quicker than their US brethren. Not sure if this is proveable, but I've heard that a lot, so there it is.

So, my question is what is the current consensus on Euro 550s/575s, what would be a "reasonable" discount one would expect on a vehicle (assume apples-to-apples in every other respect), and why or why not would you consider purchasing one?

Thanks for listening. And, as they say on the radio call-in shows, I'll take my answer off the air.

ketel

 

I would be very surprised if there are significant differences. Let us not forget that Ferrari willfully abandoned the US market for over a decade due to the DOT/EPA regulations and because it did, it never designed the cars to conform. This is where the Boxer trouble started - they were not easy to convert. However, the 550 was always designed to be an car for the American market, and so I do not believe that there is a significant difference between US and Euro 550's. I certainly have no references to it in my 550 manual and I've never come across documented differences. But since I'm european, I don't know exactly what's going on in the land of the brave, so maybe I'm wrong.

FWIW, my Euro 550 is great! But you knew that already.


Onno

 

One of the reasons the Euro cars are faster is because of the US emissions system limits power. I was at the factory three years ago. I witnessed the building of the 575 SA. You could see the engines and drivetrains waiting to be placed into the cars at the factory. My first observation was the difference in the size of the exhaust systems between the US and Euro cars. The US manifolds were smaller and restricted. The Euro manifolds were larger and less restricted. So, this could be a factor in the performance of Euro cars.

 

with the cars approaching 10+ years in age and out of warranty, i really think it is becoming less of an issue. i have heard stories of dealers (FOA) refusing to woork on euro cars but if you live in an area like CA where there is a plethora of indy shops it won't matter.

besides, as these cars depreciate into the 60,70,80's how much less is a euro car really gonna bring ?

 

Very interesting.


Onno

 

I think it does not matter. If cost is an issue then buy the euro if someone wants to discount it. At worst you will discount it to the next buyer and still have driven the car for less than any US car, i.e. less cost same fun. Also realize that if the euro ever goes crazy again vs the dollar not only will you have the US market to sell your car but those on the continent will willingly repatriate a euro car to the homeland and you'll probably get more money for it. They never ship US cars back. California is really the only state that has any real issues and those issues go to zero if you look at the BAR website http://www.bar.ca.gov/ on the lower left "find vehicle smog test history". You can actually plug in the car's VIN and see the smog passing history of any car. If the euro has passed smog in California and has a history of doing so then you will find absolutely no difference between it and a US variant except you will save some money. With a smog history not only do you know it will pass but that it had to have all its papers in order to pass, i.e. dot/epa certs. Also you can see if the car has had a history of running well in the number of failed or aborted smog attempts. So that is a nice feature the beaurcrats in sacto give us.

 

The further from the date of manufacture the car gets, the less it matters.

 

I've owned both U.S. spec. and Euro 550's, The Euro is def quicker.

Registration was no issue, dealer service was no issue.

If buying after 99, then I would go after a Euro for the lack of acceleration limiting pre-cat exhaust restrictors. went from 4.2s to 4.6s

 

ketel- You can answer some of your own questions by doing a little research using Ricambi's online parts catalog. For the 575M, at least, a lot of old wive's tales about the differences between Euro and US/Canadian specs can be debunked with a few minutes of work. As examples, the exhausts and catalysts for the 575M are identical, but the igniton injection ECU is totally different, as are the fuel tanks. How is the ECU different? Only Ferrari knows for sure.

US and Canadian cars are virtually identical except for metric instrumentation.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

First I will admit I have very little experience with gray market 550 and 575. I do have quite a bit of experience with gray market 360. The cars are faster, they are also lighter, especially the 360 and it is lighter where it counts. Mechanically the cars these days tend to be almost duplicates, the major differences being electronic programming, and various crash reinforcement. Air injection is usually added and modifications to the evaporative control system are common.

I do think you are taking too much for granted about the quality of the work done for federalization. While in the old days it was very intrusive in nature the market place did support a number of shops that did quality work. Amerispec comes to mind. These days, while it tends to be less intrusive I have seen no examples of the quality that was once available.

 

I would second Amerispec.

Ferrari tried to claim that the cars were materially different and requested disallowing imports.

That Failed. See nhtsa-2001-9630 (http://www.federalregistersearch.com/2002/4/10/02-8621-filed.asp)

-dsd

 

I had a 1985 euro mondial once done by amerispec. I was the second owner so I do not know what happened after it left amerispec but it was quite a hack job that someone else may have done to get more power and destroyed Amerispecs work. I do not know. I never did go through the pain of doing a bar label with a bar ref during the years when cailfornia mandated all euro cars to get bar labels to be smogged anywhere in the state. When I first bought the car with epadot certs I would just go to a smog station and they would smog it. Then after about 4 years of ownership a station would not smog it said the rules changed. I made a half hearted attempt to get the bar label with bar ref and everything but had 3 ferraris and no time to drive them. So the euro car got stored and letter sold. Today I have no problems buying a california titled euro car with smog history and in my experience these cars were always better than the US cars as far as being driver's cars.

 

Guys - These are all good points and duly noted.

One of wrinkles here that fatbillybob and few other touched on is that I am in CA and the 550 in question is not, nor has it ever been titled in CA as far as I know. So, the grey area here (no pun intended) is what the risks and steps are in ensuring that the car, now titled in a state on the east coast, can get titled in CA without headaches and big unexpected costs to get things right if they are not.

Anyone with experience titling Euro cars in CA that have been titled elsewhere in the US previously? Anything in the paperwork I should be looking for?

Thanks for all the responses thus far. Very appreciative of the input.

ketel

 

Do a search. There is another Fchater very knowledgeable on getting gray cars to california. He said the process is not bad. The car just to be in 49 states will already have the dot/epa cert. It will need to have the california certificate of conformity and a new bar label placed that says california ok on it. You can do that cert yourself after taking the car to a BAR referee station or have a company like this do the work who are in california and do this all the time. http://www.gnkauto.com/
These guys do tons of california cars turnkey or you can save some bucks and do it yourself

 

ketel- Having done the gray market routine on a Daytona and a 308 GTS years ago, a real pain in the neck, is the small savings worth the hassle for a 550? Think hard. I doubt it.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

If the car is already here and has been registrered in a state, then there is no "hassle"

Just make sure the car you are buying has been registered prior.

John

 

Terry - Check your PM

ketel

 

ketel- Your PM box is full. What I have to say is pretty simple, though, so here goes.

If the car already has the DOT and EPA certifications, it probably is a good deal at the price you mentioned. I would ask for copies of the paperwork and title (all clearly marked COPY) and then take them to your home state DMV office and see if there will be any problems with titling the car. The DMV offices have a data base of all cars built to US specs. If the car is not on the list, you need to make sure they will accept the paper work you have. Factor in putting US instruments in, as well, unless you are real good at 3280.8/5280 (0.621) and using metric pressures and temperatures (C x 1.8 +32).

If you have to hire someone to do the certs, I personally would not do it.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

CA is a known PITA state for euros, hence the number of "49 state" cars.....

 

might this be the Jersey 550?

 

Terry, sorry about the PM build-up. Since corrected that.

Yes, vehicle has certs in hand and US instrumentation from a previous owner. But, to your point, the devil is in the details. Will know in the next day the rest of the story on service docs and whether CA DMV will accept the docs I have. If not, then I have to pass. The discount inherent in the price versus other US variants in the market is nice, but probably not enough to mitigate the risk factors, potential headaches, etc is everything else is not impeccable.

Thanks, and will advise.

ketel

 

ketel- Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Sounds like a really good deal on a 485 hp, 199 mph, beautiful Ferrari if there are no paperwork complications.

I took my policeman neighbor for a ride today to see if he thought my Novitec exhaust (really loud) was going to get me in trouble. He said "No, nobody is going to stop a Ferrari for sounding awesome, even if it is a bit (very) loud".

The 550s sound just as glorious, if not quite as loud (hopefully), so I hope you get your car. I love Maranellos. With English instrumentation already, the deal sounds even better.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Fantastic. Gotta love those boys in blue. (when they're not pulling us over for speeding tickets, that is.)

ketel