F-430 Used Market Values

Sent you a PM

 

I bought a pre-owned 2007 430 Berlinetta (originally delv'd November 2007) from a Ferrari dealer in Calif. in October. This was on consignment and only had 1,400 mi. - F1 trans. and very loaded with options. 15K under MSRP. From what I remember my sales guy saying is that I got it at a wholesale price level.

C-

 

Pano,

I suppose you're right about "there will ALWAYS BE a better time". However, with the state of the economy being what it is, I'm "speculating" with a fair amount of certainty that we'll see an even softer 430 market within a few months. That "better time" will come alot faster than most people in the market would have anticipated before october. A glut of 430s that aren't moving coupled with financial hardship for many leveraged owners will create quite a few bargains out there in the new year.

Of course, no matter how financially wise I think I am, I understand that my philosphy and "speculations" don't apply to everyone. The right time to buy can in the end only be decided by the prospective buyer. If that person thinks ~$10K over 2 months or so is worth the instant gratification so be it. For a more conservative spender, waiting to see what the new year brings might suit his/her philosphy better. So, while understanding your point of view, I'm simply stating that it doesn't agree with my view and "speculations" of what the market will look like in january and on.

In regards to making a "brilliant financial move" while buying a production car, nobody in their right mind would see a 430 as anything but a depreciating asset. But why not minimize the loss if possible? That money could go to the next service or perhaps a charitable cause if $10K has such little bearing on ones finances.

-Peter Oh

 

www.catsexotics.com.

2005 F430 coupe, red/tan, six speed, power daytonas, ball polished wheels, skid plates, shields, Leather top, colored stitching, HIFI w/subwoofer, leather rear shelf and door mouldings, Battery tender, blue tooth, red painted calipers, yellow face tach, carbon fiber dash, Run flat tires, Tubi exhaust, full 3m, fresh 7500 mile service, books & tools included. 186k msrp.

PPI just performed at Ferrari Orange County. Asking price $147,888.00.

Will let go by this Friday at $142,888.00 DELIVERED to anywhere in lower 48 states.

Give me a call with questions.

 

+ 1 with Peter

 

I totally agree. I have wanted a Ferrari for a log time but buying over msrp really turned me off. I currently have a deposit on a 2010 Corvette ZR1 at MSRP. I will buy that car, but if a loaded f430 6 sp coupe gets down to the $130 -$140 range I would seriously consider that an alternative ( and I believe they will be even lower). There are several on the market now in the $140 - 150 range I suspect that they will get even cheaper. I'm on the sidelines with Ferarri but the economy may change my mind. All cars will get cheaper in the next 6 months. If you ignore the economy and the falling price of cars you need to rethink your strategy.

Respectfully Submitted

 

Anybody want to guess what the wholesale number is a 2005 F430 couple in average condition with, say, 10k miles?

I just found out today. I still don't believe it.

Dale

 

Dale,

I know of one car..but wholesale on these cars can very from car to car...market to market and dealer to dealer...

 

Ok, let me take a guess, $115K? Close?

 

Actually that would sound right...

 

I was told $130k. Unfreaken believable.

I used to own a Challenge Stradale and thought it was the best sports car I had ever driven. I then drove a F430 on the track at Mt. Tremblant. I changed my mind.

Damn. $130K and this ain't bottom yet.

Dale

PS Don't even ask about where F360s are at. You don't wanna know.

PPS Challenge Stradales, however, are holding steady at about $160k. Go figure.

 

Ok, now I gotta ask. What's the wholesale value of my 2004 F360 6sp? I'm sitting down...

 

I have an '05 w/stick, red/tan 13K miles. I figured if I needed fast money I'd be looking at 120K max. A friend of mine is going to look at one this weekend with paddles and around 8K miles. The asking is in the 130's. He's hoping to get it for 125. Another friend from CA just bought a brand new (as in on MSO) 430 spider off a showroom floor for less than MSRP. Ferrari of Denver also has one asking MSRP. I have not seen a new, on MSO car available since the mid 90's.

Dave

PS: I've had mine for 39 months. I plan to keep enjoying it. Sure glad I paid cash.

 

Certainly some deals out there however, I don't see prime examples offered at these prices. Any experienced buyer will consider more then just selling price.

 

Dave, what is MSO? I usually can figure out any abbreviation but Im stumped.

 

Somewhere back of $100k. Say $85k?

Bottom line is that if you don't have to sell, don't.

Dale

 

Manufacture Statement of Origin.

A perfect F430 blk/blk spyder w/ all the options , a trade in to Bentley BH sold with 5k sold for 160k ,
Manheim Riverside - Post-Sale Results
Year Make Model Subseries Color Drs Cyl Fuel Trans 4x4 EW Radio Top Int Odometer Price
2005 FERRARI F430 BLACK 2 8 Gas A Y D CV L 5,269 $160,000
2000 FERRARI 360 MODENA GREY 2 8 Gas A Y Tape HT L 23,157 $61,000
2002 FERRARI 360 SPIDER YELLOW 2 8 Gas A Y CD CV L 6,978 $94,000
2001 FERRARI 360 SPYDER BLUE 2 8 Gas 6 2 Y CD CV L 10,077 $80,000
2007 FERRARI 599 GTB RED 2 12 Gas T 2 Y CD HT L 6,112 $250,000

 

All new cars come with manufacturers statement of origin which is required when a car gets it's first title. In the case of Ferraris, the practice was for a new car buyer to title them and then flip them which circumvented FNA's MSRP and geographical area selling requirement. Once a car is titled, it is forever techincally a used car even if never driven. If you lease or finance a car, the MSO goes to the finance company and they actually get the title in your name (or their name if leased) but keep it as collateral. So, unless you pay cash, you will never get to see the car's "birth certificate".

Dave

 

Here are the results from the MMR Internet version as of this morning! I guess what blows my mind most is, with so many dealers setting on inventory, why are the auctions and the wholesale networks not loaded up with cars right now??

Most recent MMR: 430 Spiders MY05

11/20/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $160,000 5,269 Avg BLACK 8G A No
03/12/08 W PALM Regular $244,000 5,079 Avg BLACK 8G A No
08/16/07 W PALM Regular $275,000 4,379 Avg Black 8G No
05/04/07 MANHEIM Regular $300,000 75 Avg RED 8G No
03/13/07 W PALM Regular $281,500 1,026 Avg RED 8G T No
03/13/07 W PALM Regular $275,000 2,066 Avg BLUE 8G A No

Most recent MMR: 430 Spiders MY06

03/22/07 W PALM Regular $270,000 3,951 Avg BLACK 8G 6 No
05/03/07 MANHEIM Regular $280,000 8,359 Avg YELLOW 8G No
08/24/07 MANHEIM Regular $270,000 9,879 Avg Yellow 8G No
10/10/07 W PALM Regular $285,000 4,155 Avg Yellow 8G S No
11/15/07 MANHEIM Regular $250,000 10,978 Avg Yellow 8G No
11/15/07 HOBBY Regular $254,000 2,306 Avg Red 8G No
02/07/08 MANHEIM Regular $238,000 11,035 Avg Yellow 8G No
08/20/08 CEN FLA Regular $215,125 6,105 Avg Yellow 8CY M No


Most recent MMR: 430 Spider MY07

05/29/08 MANHEIM Regular $260,000 206 Avg RED 8G 6 No
06/12/08 MANHEIM Regular $261,000 907 Avg YELLOW 8G A No

Now for the coupes:

MY05:

02/14/07 W PALM Regular $229,000 1,938 Avg RED 8G A No
02/22/07 MANHEIM Regular $219,000 1,885 Avg RED 8G 6 No
03/13/07 W PALM Regular $217,000 1,943 Avg RED 8G T No
04/19/07 MANHEIM Regular $226,000 2,315 Avg BLACK 8G A No
04/26/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $195,000 9,919 Avg LT BLUE 8G A No
05/03/07 MANHEIM Regular $230,000 2,063 Avg RED 8G No
05/17/07 MANHEIM Regular $206,000 17,287 Avg RED 8G No
05/31/07 MANHEIM Regular $207,000 2,088 Avg RED 8G No
06/21/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $209,000 7,275 Avg RED 8G A No
07/26/07 MANHEIM Regular $213,750 2,643 Avg RED 8G A No
08/02/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $189,500 10,994 Avg LT BLUE 8G A No
10/11/07 RIVRSIDE Lease $189,000 7,217 Avg RED 8G A No
10/24/07 W PALM Regular $190,000 9,928 Avg RED 8G 6 No
03/12/08 W PALM Regular $202,000 3,930 Avg RED 8G A No
03/27/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $170,000 8,894 Avg RED 8G A No
07/10/08 NEVADA Regular $165,000 18,841 Avg RED 8G 6 No
09/25/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $147,000 15,833 Avg RED 8G 6 No

MY06:

08/23/07 W PALM Regular $204,000 3,154 Avg Red 8G No
09/18/07 BIG H Regular $185,100 11,918 Avg Black 8G No
11/01/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $180,000 6,700 Avg Black 8G No
02/01/08 MANHEIM Regular $172,500 514 Avg GREY 8G No
11/12/08 ATLANTA Regular $154,000 7,645 Avg Yellow 8G 6 No

MY07:

07/10/08 MANHEIM Regular $210,500 3,277 Avg RED 8G 6 No

Here is the MMR for the 360's!

MY99:

09/19/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $83,500 22,226 Avg Blue NON N No
09/04/08 MANHEIM Regular $88,000 9,823 Avg SILVER 8G 6 No
06/05/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $83,500 12,537 Avg BLUE 8G A No
05/14/08 NADE Regular $68,000 32,768 Avg YELLOW 8G No
12/07/07 NEVADA Regular $85,000 21,818 Avg SILVER 8G A No
10/25/07 W PALM Lease $68,000 41,904 Avg GREY 8G A No
10/19/07 MANHEIM Regular $80,000 26,238 Avg Red 8G No
09/11/07 FAAO Regular $95,000 28,758 Avg YELLOW 8G M No
08/14/07 FAAO Regular $96,500 29,165 Avg YELLOW0 8G A No
06/21/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $98,000 25,988 Avg YELLOW 8G M No
04/26/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $98,000 17,265 Avg PURPLE 8G A No
04/05/07 MANHEIM Regular $120,000 15,443 Avg YELLOW 8G A No
03/22/07 MANHEIM Regular $109,000 14,172 Avg YELLOW 8G No
01/25/07 NEVADA Regular $94,000 30,774 Avg BLUE 8G A No

MY00

07/30/08 SAN DIEG Lease $75,000 25,189 Avg RED 8G A Yes
09/11/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $85,000 8,627 Above SILVER 8G A Yes
10/09/08 W PALM Regular $77,500 21,818 Avg NONE NON N Yes
10/28/08 DFW Regular $80,250 26,870 Avg YELLOW 8G A Yes
11/11/08 FAAO Regular $78,000 11,477 Avg RED 8G M Yes
11/20/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $61,000 23,157 Below GREY 8G A Yes

MY01

12/06/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $100,000 18,941 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes
02/19/08 DFW Regular $105,000 15,799 Above SIL 8G A Yes
03/12/08 W PALM Regular $103,000 11,123 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes
06/19/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $90,000 19,789 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes
07/11/08 NEVADA Regular $81,000 22,442 Below SILVER 8G A Yes
10/09/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $79,500 21,602 Below SILVER 8G A Yes

MY02

11/02/06 NEVADA Regular $136,000 7,674 Avg LT.BLU 8G A No
05/17/07 MANHEIM Regular $131,000 3,871 Avg SILVER 8G No
08/09/07 MANHEIM Regular $122,500 9,654 Avg RED 8G A No
10/18/07 MANHEIM Regular $118,000 11,675 Avg RED 8G A No
03/12/08 W PALM Regular $100,000 23,679 Avg RED 8G A No
08/28/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $97,000 7,478 Avg SILVER 8G A No

MY03

04/15/08 FAAO Regular $125,000 6,657 Above SILVER 8G M Yes
05/01/08 MANHEIM Regular $123,500 7,454 Above YELLOW 8G 6 Yes
08/14/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $107,000 15,749 Avg YELLOW 8G A Yes
08/21/08 MANHEIM Regular $110,000 9,225 Avg RED 8G 6 Yes
09/23/08 DALLAS Regular $103,000 21,359 Below 8G Yes
11/11/08 FAAO Regular $110,000 14,813 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes


MY04

04/15/08 FAAO Regular $125,000 6,657 Above SILVER 8G M Yes
05/01/08 MANHEIM Regular $123,500 7,454 Above YELLOW 8G 6 Yes
08/14/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $107,000 15,749 Avg YELLOW 8G A Yes
08/21/08 MANHEIM Regular $110,000 9,225 Avg RED 8G 6 Yes
09/23/08 DALLAS Regular $103,000 21,359 Below 8G Yes
11/11/08 FAAO Regular $110,000 14,813 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes

Notice the dates!!! Now for the Spiders!!

MY01:

07/08/08 FAAO Regular $118,000 14,032 Above RED 8G A Yes
07/24/08 MANHEIM Regular $101,500 24,739 Avg Red 8G 6 Yes
08/13/08 MILWAUKE Regular $114,500 6,171 Above LT GRAY 8G 6 Yes
09/18/08 MANHEIM Regular $100,500 18,992 Avg BLUE/TAN 8G A Yes
09/18/08 MANHEIM Regular $89,000 24,759 Below RED 8G 6 Yes
11/20/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $80,000 10,077 Below BLUE 8G 6 No

MY02:

04/02/08 ATLANTA Regular $135,000 5,356 Above Silver 8G Yes
05/01/08 MANHEIM Regular $135,500 10,842 Above RED 8G 6 Yes
07/30/08 W PALM Regular $128,000 3,312 Above RED 8G A Yes
07/31/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $112,000 1,620 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes
10/14/08 FAAO Regular $110,000 11,911 Avg BLACK 8G A Yes
11/20/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $94,000 6,978 Below YELLOW 8G A No

MY03:

01/25/07 MANHEIM Regular $163,500 11,143 Avg RED 8G No
02/08/07 MANHEIM Regular $171,000 6,916 Avg Red 8G No
05/03/07 MANHEIM Regular $169,500 6,917 Avg Red 8G No
06/14/07 MANHEIM Regular $158,500 13,717 Avg YELLOW 8G No
07/10/07 FAAO Regular $145,000 13,518 Avg GRAY 8G 6 No
07/12/07 MANHEIM Regular $161,000 9,571 Avg YELLOW 8G 6 No
09/25/07 LAUD/MIA Regular $135,000 14,176 Avg Silver 8G No
01/31/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $105,000 46,243 Avg RED 8G A No
02/19/08 DFW Regular $140,000 7,214 Avg GRAY 8G 6 No
09/18/08 MANHEIM Regular $109,500 16,177 Avg Yellow 8G No
10/16/08 W PALM Regular $110,000 6,381 Avg NONE NON N No
10/16/08 GTR PHNX Lease $105,000 19,475 Avg BLACK 8G A No

MY04:

04/03/08 MANHEIM Regular $134,500 20,942 Avg RED 8G Yes
04/11/08 LAUD/MIA Regular $135,000 25,710 Avg Red 8G A Yes
05/29/08 MANHEIM Regular $150,000 13,950 Above AVUS 8G 6 Yes
07/17/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $130,000 15,151 Avg RED 8G 6 Yes
07/17/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $127,000 17,544 Avg BLACK 8G A Yes
07/30/08 W PALM Regular $147,000 2,199 Above RED 8G A Yes

MY05:

02/27/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $176,000 18,959 Avg RED 8G A No
09/13/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $176,000 11,974 Avg RED 8G M No
05/01/08 MANHEIM Regular $159,000 10,750 Avg SILVER 8G A No

 

Chris, thanks for posting. This is really useful for buyers. When I purchased my MY2004 coupe back in year 2006, I wasn't sure if I over paid or paid a fair market value. Unfortunately, the data for MY2004 coupes don't go that far back, or maybe that no MY2004's went up for auction until year 2008. If i were to graph the data, given that there is very few data on MY2007's, it would appear that the steepest curve (or greatest decline in price at auction), are the MY2005 Spiders and Coupes. Interestingly, it is the MY1999 360 Modena that have a flatter curve. If I were a first time buyer and was worried about depreciation, it appears that the MY1999 would have the least amount of price decline.

 

Your welcome..Please keep in mind that some cars are better then others..2 Ferrari's may look the same but be very diffrent in terms of pedigree. Also keep in mind that these are what dealers paid at wholesale, and do not in anyway reflect market value. just what dealers either dumped out of or cars that ware repo'ed...thats how these cars end up on the MMR rather then the other wholesale dealer to dealer networks! I have looked at several Manheim ferrari's or lambo's and never bought a single one!

For example here is what the number 1 wholesale dealer to dealer networks puts the spider's at MY05-07 at $198k-228k wholesale...and the coupes at $148-$188k..and this network every exotic dealer buys through and offers there wholesale cars...There is total of 10 car for wholesale right now, and there are 5 dealers looking for cars...There are none on the MMR right now! Thats why a dealer will use MMR when talking with a buyer wanting to trade...Dealers can show you proof of low ball offer on the MMR when you trading...

 

THANK YOU!!!!

Any of you would go RUNNING as fast as possible away from these cars. If you have never been to an auction... GO! Get there. These prices are not gospel for the cars you would actually want to own. Many of these cars needs lots of reconditioning. These are the cars that dealers are too afraid to sell publicly and would rather wholesale them... to people the DO NOT know. An average rating at MMR would be a poor car to you... a below avg car is... well... missing lots of things... like bumpers... or 4 proper wheels, or the top doesn't work and the F1 tranny won't go into gear... seriously... red light cars... or bellow avg cars typically have had frame damage as well.

So for the amateur wanna be broker out there... don't shout the sky is falling due to these reports and that a pristine car is worth xxx amount because of what you have read on manheim. GO... GO to the auction... lay your eyes on the cars... then make a call.

OF COURSE there are always going to be a few GREAT deals... but they are few and far between.

 

Sorry Chris, but my numbers came from conversations with some Ferrari dealers. An average 2005 F430 with over 7,500 miles wholesales for $130k more or less. This is a real number from real wholesalers who will overnight a draft sight unseen.

Granted, this doesn't mean that I can buy a car for $130k because I'm not a wholesaler. The wholesalers will try to get at least $20k over, but may settle for $10k.

You should also disclose that the Manheim numbers, at least for highline exotic cars such as Ferraris, are not wholesale. In fact, they are pretty much right-hand book. There is so much proxy buying going on at Manheim that the final bid numbers become retail.

Dale

 

Dale,

I know and understand, The numbers I quoted are from the 2 networks one that is owned by a Ferrari Dealer... Dealer will use MMR to low ball your trade..thats whole point of MMR!

 

If you buy a ferrari at manheim auction.. just expect to get what you pay for.