599 or Alfa 8C

Gee I never thought of trying race setting...

The star attraction of the 599 (I had the first one in Asia) was Superfast...

I found the car fantastic but over time (I had 2 new 599's) found the car not so interesting as a daily driver. Just my experience - but apparently the experience of quite a few of the first owners in HK as there are so many cars for sale now from that group

 

No question, I'll take the 599.

 

the 8C and 599 seem worlds apart really. I'd have to have both, each for different moods.

The 8C, from what others have been implying, is similar to a go-kart in ride quality, ie, it handles great but at the expense of comfort and your spinal column.

The 599 is a GT car, a V12, and you get more car, probably in every way. The 8C has it's styling going for it. If the 599 is more understated in comparison (design-wise), it exponentially makes up for it in performance and livability.

If handed the keys for life to a choice of the two, I'd walk right to the Ferrari and get in.

 

I found the 599 with the F1 to do all the work for you, and I agree that at practically any reasonable speed, its just another car, just wildly competent and easy. That's why I chose the manual and find the experience exhilirating at any speed.

 

Saying that the 599 is a 'derivative' of whatever really doesn't matter...everything is a derivative of something else.

A local has one that I have seen at meets, but it snuck up on me the other day in traffic and it was the first time in a while I had seen a Ferrari without looking for one. It looked great. Great lines, face, rear, side profile, everything.

But that 8C is something else. Haven't seen one in person, and likely never will, but where the 599 is visually great, the 8C is perfect. Not a single design flaw anywhere.

Would buy that car for looks alone. You can alter how it (or any other car) drives relatively easily. It's damn near impossible to improve on those lines, IMHO. A real heart-thumper, and those are rare nowadays.

Good luck with your choice!

 

Two flickr albums featuring both cars side by side:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenclaes/sets/72157609207314397/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/denniske/sets/72157609191256450/

 

My own .02, and probably not worth that much:

I have a 599 so perhaps I'm biased, but I just don't get the 8C. I've never actually seen one, so my impressions are all based on the pictures I've seen, but I'll go against the prevailing wisdom and state that I believe it to be ill-proportioned. I think it's too tall for its length. The interior looks nowhere near as rich as that of a 599, but again this is based solely on pictures I've seen. And I can't possibly comment on driving dynamics because since I haven't seen one I certainly haven't driven one.

We can argue the marketplace forever. Even though my 599 is only 3 months old and was purchased at MSRP, I know I'd get clobbered if I sold it. I'm pretty realistic about this stuff. But I don't see a modern Alfa competing at the price point these things are being sold at. I know there are those who will NEED to have it--and then will likely get bored of it--but I think the market after that is pretty thin. A $250,000 Ferrari is an everyday sight; not so with a similarly priced Alfa Romeo. It's tough to make the leap from the (dare I say it) plebeian nature of its current model lineup to a high-priced image car, although probably less so in the United States where we haven't had access to the brand in over ten years. A name alone cannot resurrect itself; look at the difficulties Maserati has faced, and at least in the United States it was a more magical, elusive name than Alfa Romeo. I think the market will trash the 8C even moreso than the 599, limited production and all.

 

Have to disagree with you here. The interior of the 2009 A4 is FAR more upscale in appearance than that of even a new Gallardo.

 

+1
In its PCOTY issue Evo just ranked the 8C barely above the Gran Turismo S, while stating the Maserati is in fact a better car. Please stop comparing the 8C to the 599 which is in a league of its own.

 

Dom

Some care what magazines think. Other's care what they think. Strange how many 2K mile 599's are for sale right now. I guess those seller's don't think it's a keeper.

Google Ferrari 599's for sale. Start counting...

 

Come on Jim, and with all due respect, some facts can't be disputed, and what I stated regarding the sales are facts.
Secondly, as I stated before, I test drove the 8C and as you know I own a 599. My opinion stands. The car is sprung way too tightly, and as an every day user I just don't think it measures up to the 599 or the Maserati from a standpoint of usability and comfort. I don't question the appeal of the 8C, nor its beauty. In terms of values down the road, who knows, and given the relative financial state of most people who buy 8C's or 599's, who cares.
We both bought cars that fit our needs now and for the long term.
I also think that bashing the future value of these cars is becoming quite unneccessary in the extreme. We can all see what is going on and piling on does not help matters.
I think what this site did to the value of 355s, one of the best Ferraris ever, because of faux manifold and valve guide issues is an absolute crime. I would hate to see the same happen because of the constant doom and gloom being proselitized on this site.
The bottom line, don't go into hock to buy any of these cars. They are not investments.
I know you are enjoying your 8C. One of the guys at Miller said your leaving it at the train station. You are indeed a brave man.
Best.

 

Dom

The 355 did have issues and I'm glad this site made people aware of them.

The idea that FCHAT makes the market is silly. The Market is a lot bigger than FCHAT and Que Sera, Sera.

I still think the original design of the 599 was better than it turned out after all the cooks started stirring the stew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHF-iApfWis


Happy Thanksgiving to You and Everyone!!

 

I don't disagree with you about the 599 looks having been committeed to less than desirable. However, overall it's still a great, original design and the engineering is masterful. Fchat certainly does not create the market, however, having owned two 355's over the span of 8 years and 32,000 miles, and being aware of other owners and their experiences, as well as those of the dealerships in my area, Miller and Wide World, the incidents of manifold and valve guide failures were completely overstated. The real problems were caused by the yahoo do it yourselfers that failed to maintain these cars properly and then yelled all over this site about the problems. So, no, I do not think they did a service at all. As a matter of fact they gave a boost to after market providers who put out inferior replacement parts such as un-insulated headers which blew out the car's electrical system. Upon selling my 355 when I picked up my 599, I cannot tell you how many interested parties asked about the issues they learned about on Fchat and whether they had been fixed. My response was that I could not fix that which was not broken. Needless to say I took a bit of a hit on the car, but it did not matter. I loved it and it was worth every penny it cost.

 

Absolutely agree with you.
I meant first gen A4 (2000 model?)

 

I dropped my car off at the shop today and saw an 8C up close for the first time. Is it just me or is it smaller than the photo's let on?
The 599 dwarfs it which was a shock to me. It's a gorgeous car but the 599 is also beautiful. I guess I just expected it to be a similar size.
My service rep said that it drives like a champ.

On my way home from dinner tonight I saw a red one parked on the street. I like the black one way more.
Just my 2 cents.
Ape
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My guess is many of those buyers, as so many in the Ferrari market, thought they could flip the car for a profit, or at least drive it "depreciation-free." And many more undoubtedly have panicked regarding their financial situation and want to sell. It's unlikely to be a referendum on the car itself.

I wonder how many Ferrari buyers over the past 10 years have been car enthusiasts as opposed to status item enthusiasts (not that the two can't mix, of course.)

 

Good Points.

 

Clarkson said the 8C felt like a Mustang... end of story. A true Italian car should never feel like that, all the reviews i've read and seen have said the 8C is a beautiful car and it is but it just isn't as good as it could of been. No Disrespect to you Jim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVEkIUtlWwg

compare that to the 599

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEl844a-E9s

 

Once again what C thinks about anything doesn't interest me.

 

Clarkson has ONE true quality and it has nothing to do with automotive knowledge....He is a good comedian. Remember, this is the fellow who said that the Ford GT was a good car - and even bought one!

If you need to listen to what he says about cars that stir the soul then you are listening to the wrong "station".

The 8 C is exceptional - probably one of the best chassis that Ferrari have ever made, but more importantly - and this is what it is all about - it moves you in ways that modern "exotica" does not. THAT is also what a great car is all about and that is why the 8 C will live in the hearts of men who love cars for years to come.

 

I disagree but oh well, and i think he has valid reasons most of the time when he talks about cars, and yes he did buy a Ford GT but he also sold it and bought a much better car.

 

Here is one in red.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or something like that).
I don't understand what all this excitement about this car is all about.
To each his own ,however.....

 

I don't think Clarkson is completely off on everything he says...he is a great comedian, which is what makes the show most enjoyable (aside from the cars), but I think that he makes a lot of pointed observations along the way. Don't forget that the Ford GT was evo's COTY a couple years back...over a Gallardo SE. Not easy pickings, in my book. And I don't think anyone can really say that the GT is a 'poor' car compared to any other. It's quite capable. You should watch C's review of the Scuderia...I think he gets it mostly right, in his own comedic fashion. I think his soul is quite in tune with what 'stirs' the soul.

You're right--the 8C is a very moving car, beginning with aesthetics, which is rare outside of hyper-exotica nowadays. I'll wager that it drives a little better than Clarkson says, though...and if it really is unwieldy, that's not too hard to change.

To each his own, but...how does one not like the 8C??

Cheers.

 

After reading the first professional test drive of the 8C (by the highly respected Italian magazine Quattroruote) I have come to the conclusion that Clarkson is either an incompetent driver or had smoked the wrong kind of weed that day. Or perhaps both.

The 8C posted a time of just under 1'20'' on Quattroruote's test track, which places it firmly in Supercar territory: it's basically the same time achieved by the 997TT, and it's a full second faster than the Ferrari F360 - and both are universally considered as good handling cars.

Enough said. Clarkson is WAY out of line with his 8C report.