Automobile magazine on Ferrari design

Interesting.

 

Despicable.

 

Don't hold back Mark... tell us how you REALLY feel!

Mike in Kuwait

 

+1. The proportions of the newer cars are amazing. Placed next to a 308 or 328 or a BB365/512, the 360's on are much larger and bulbous. The 355 in my opinion was the last timeless type style made for Ferrari. The rounded wind tunnel shaping are not distinctive as you have pointed out. Even Ferrari have been influenced by retro styling - or "backward looking cues". Porsche succeeded in keeping the 911 alive with the 997 return to round headlights vs the teardrop shape in the boxster and 996 variant. It said Porsche - the round headlights.

The question is then what is "Ferrari" in terms of styling? For many of us the Boxer or 308 is such statement. Possibly the Daytona and its shape and look. Others may like the 275 etc. Ferrari have been able to define "style" with more than 1 model unlike Porsche. I would imagine it would be hard to simply say "Ferrari style" with just one styling cue like the 911.

 

They have to be due to pedestrian protection laws. Pininfarina & Co are not bloating the cars on purpose, they have to.

 

+1 DF1

 

I'll take a bit of a contrarian view. I agree the cars have grown in girth too much but this is at least partly due to new safety standards. Still, the weight of my 430 and 328 is nearly identical thanks to aluminum. All brands of cars have gotten fatter. Look at BMW 3 series for a prime example. They now have a new 1 series, but they are pretty heavy as well. Nevertheless, the 360 was a ground breaking design and has been copied a lot which maybe makes the design now look generic, but it is others copying Ferrari that has done this. Think of the R8 as prime example of copying, right down to the engine being displayed under glass. Also Lambos are much the same, just with sharper edges. Like many of you, I think the 360/430 is too big, but we cannot argue with success. Ferrari nailed it with these cars. I expect the 430 will be followed by another game changer.

I was fortunate that I got to attend the California unveiling in Santa Monica in Sept. For a variety of reasons, the car does not fill me with desire, but I think it looks much better in person. We were also allowed to sit in and fondle them afterwards and I was actually impressed with it. I think it is a great product for the market at which it was aimed. I can easily see it as a great daily driver the well to do crowd but I won't give up my 430 to get one.

 

Just a couple photos stolen from the "Ferraris have gotten too big?" thread from back in 07.

As I understand it, the Cali is even taller in the back than the 550 (am I wrong?).

I understand the need to sell to NFL linemen and Fortune 500 CEOs, but the new cars are just huge.
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That isn't Automobiles opinion, it's just one guys from the magazine. While I am not a huge fan of the California, it does look much better in person. And there have been MANY, great designs over the past twenty years. He's nuts....

 

I guess Smart, Lotus, Japanese 'minipan,' and Mini skipped that pedestrian protection law class.

 

Bigger yes, "huge", not by a long shot. A 360 still looks small next to 85% of the cars on the road today....

 

A Ferrari 360 is a beautiful object. Perhaps one of the best looking cars Ferrari has ever made.

 

Robert Cumberford is a hack in the truest sense of the word. The man has never designed anything of note thus he chooses to criticize. If you spend as much as a half-hour with the man, and I spent considerably more time than that with him, you will quickly realize that his comments are driven by jealousy of those with real skills. I know of a number of prototype builders who consider the man an ignoramus.
I met him at Geneva in '06 where he stated to Jason C that while he really liked his Birdcage he did not like the "Modulo" which partly inspired the Birdcage, because the car did not reflect a "modular" concept. What a crock. What does a choice of a name, often determined by others and for totally unrelated reasons have to do with the value of the design?

In '07 when we again met he called the 599 design a "bitsa" while at the same time naming the 430 a top ten design. Never mind that the 430 has the profile of the 360, the nose from the sharknose F1, the rear fender line and air scoop of the LM and the rear of the Enzo. Now that's a B-I-T-S-A!!

It's dishartening when people's idea of good design is stuck in the 1950/60's. As for his comments about the Enzo Ferrari days, let's be clear. Enzo did not give a hoot about design. He left Pinin Farina alone. Unfortunately Monte does not have the same perspective, thus much of what Pininfarina does goes through a number of committees before it is finalized. At the end of the day, they at least try to move forward instead of being stuck in the past.
Size is something we can all agree on. They are all way too big based on our ideal of small, light, powerful cars we all grew up with. But, Ferrari is a going concern and that means selling cars into new markets and buyers who demand more creature comforts, trunks, and ease of use. The average American in 1960 was 5"7", today he is 5'10. The same is true in Europe, and other parts of the world. We have all grown taller and fatter, and thus need to be accomodated accordingly. Rich economies that demand these cars are by their very nature very acquisitive of goodies and gadgets that they like to bring along. Thus we have these bloated vehicles. Perhaps with the recession in full bloom, not to mention conservation and overall efficiency, the whole formula may begin to revert somewhat. Let's hope so.

 

The other 85% carry more than 2 people


or the driver and his ego

 

Maybe it looks better to early 93 viper enthusiasts than it does to me. IMHO, the transition from 355 to 360 was a retrograde stylewise, and a big one at that. So was the nearly simultaneous transition from the C4 Corvette to the C5.

And, while I still don't care for them - conversely, the second generation Viper of the same era was to me a big improvement over the cartoon-like originals.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Taste is a matter of taste...period.

Based on sales of the 360, 430 and 599...what's the problemo?

The F40 was the Enzo of it's day. Somewhat of a handfull at the limits. Modern Fcars are safer and easier to drive...and arguably more reliable.

while one may be able to afford a 360, 430 or a 599... an F40 or 60s California Spider are out of most of our reach. For those with limited resources it's always a trade-off with affordability, performance and eye appeal. (who wouldn't want an Enzo or a pontoon bodied Testarossa to name just two??)

3*8 just dont have the performance and safety features of newer 360 and 430.

the 246 Dino is a beautiful looking car. Obviously its power, brakes and safety features are lacking but it will probably prove to be a better investment than 360, 430 and maybe 599s. And if you like to do some maintenance, the Dino is doable.

But I remember when people maintained that Dinos were not "real" Ferraris.

So I guess my point is that get a car that you love that you can afford. Bottom line is that when someone puts their money on the line, that is what really matters. All the talk is just interesting.

I loved my F355 GTS. But I love my F360 Spider even more and is well worth the extra investment. Deciced that an F430 was just not worth the extra money for me...and I must admit the uncertainties in the world economic situation had a bearing on my decision. If my investments were up 10% instead of down 10% I probably would have got the 430 Spyder. but alas such is not the case and there is no CERTAINTY that we have reached bottom yet.

Bottom line is the 360 is more than enough car for me and I like to sleep at night.

 

I haven't seen the California in person yet so I'll hold judgement. The rear doesn't look promising in photos.

As a designer and artist I have to agree that Ferrari is seemingly beginning to lose their way. I agree that they have done beautiful modern cars such as the F430 but when you look at the 599 and now the Cailfornia it is apparent that they are catering to their "focus groups". The 599 is beautiful but there is something off about its bloated proportion. I say shrink it down 10% and WOW!!!

I like things better when there is one vision and you can love it or leave it.

I think they are trying too hard to please what they think their customer is. When you begin to try and design a sports car for *ahem" an older customer base who just has to have a comfortable car, dead quiet interior, and carry their golf bag you are in trouble. That's where I think they are taking their grand touring cars.

They are doing what they think they need to survive and be profitable but I think it's the wrong path. Of course, I'm just some schmoe on the internet!

I'll take a beautiful, low slung rocket, that screams in my ear and runs like the Scuderia. I have two feet so I WANT to shift and if I need to bring my clubs I'll drive a BMW, thank you very much!

 

Cheez Whiz outsells caviar.

 

+1, but you forgot arrogant.

I quit reading his column years ago, after he bragged about humiliating someone that was unfortunate enough to be his student.

 

Everything has gotten bigger (including me)... I miss the good old days
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Really? park a 360 and a 355 next to a 246GT and it becomes clear the Modena is the new Dino and the 355 is a cleaned up 348.


Check this thread for photo reference
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222761&page=2

 

Basically the problem is we have run out of ideas ... car design has reached that end phase, where we have been there and done that already. There is nothing more to do, other than add wanky electronics and many other things that do not belong in a car.

The Daytona was too big, and so has every front engined Ferrari since then. I now actually appreciate the looks of the 599, but it should be the size of a Nissan 350Z or a Mazda Rx8. And there is no law causing the oversized Ferraris, just stupidity .
Pete

 

I like the 360 but wonder how the design will test over time, it is after all a hatchback coupe, the California looks like a sell out to make $$$ on the Ferrari name, kind of sad in a way similar like hearing a iconic rock band like the Doors selling cheeseburgers in a McDonalds commercial if Morison was still around