F430 wheels on 456?

Fit it will but you'll need spacers front and back to make it right. The 456s run more negative offsets compared to the V8s. Fronts can actually get away without the spacers but your total 'track' will be less, therefore you'll need circa 15mm on either side. Rears have massive differences,i.e somewhat 25-30mm (inch ++) to get the wheels to offset negatively,i.e jut out further. AFAIK Novitecs sells their NF series wheels for 360s and applicable for the 456/550 with spacers at the back. The said spacers should be good to use with the 430s hoops. Alternatively you can go to Daniel at Ricambi for Hill Engineering's spacers.

Note : The 456/550 runs way bigger wheel combo.Stock 17" fronts are at 245/45/17 on 8.5/9.0? wheels and if you intend to run 19"s, the correct size should be 255/35/19. Optimum for a 255 sized front should be a 9" wide wheel. The stock 430 front wheel is at 8.0" or 8.5", I can't recall. If it's 8.5 you might just get away with fitment of a 255 section tyre but the said tyre won't look so good on the wheels since there'll be plenty of 'shoulder slack'. Same logic goes for the rears. I don't have any data with me since I'm in CN now but you'll need a minimum of 11" wide at the rear to run a minimum 305 section tyre (If you go 19"s that is)

 

First of all, a faux pas on my part,i.e fronts for the 456 stock are 255/45/17.

Like I said, the 456/550 series cars have 'bigger' wheels combo. In this case, it's the width vis a vis the V8s. Std are 255/45/17F and 285/40/17 R. The 550 which basically has the same 'size' but 'upsized' to 18" are 255/40/18 and 295/35/18 front and rear respectively. Now, if you go the 19" route, your sizes would be 255/35/19 Fronts and 305/30/19 Rears. You can get away with 285 section for the rear, but your Aspect Ratio, i.e the 30/35/40 series shall have to be lesser in this case to counter the total tyre section. For the V8 mid-engined cars, the rears are totally out of sync with the fronts as far as Rolling Diameters are concerned. Weight at the back necessitates the rears to have more wheel/tyre combo. In a nutshell, stock 430 19" Rear wheels are BIGGER than a stock 456/550 in overall rolling diameter.

Standard 456 ( 255/45/17) Front Rolling Diameter : 661.3mm
Standard 456 ( 285/40/17) Rear rolling diameter : 659.8mm

Standard 430 ( 235/35/19) Front Rolling Diameter :647.1mm
Standard 430 ( 285/35/19) Rear rolling diameter : 682.1mm

If you go with the 305/30/19 size, your total OD would be 665.6, close enuff to be negligible to eradicate speedo error or total rake of the car. Closest to stock would be 355/25/19 at 660.1mm OD but 355s too wide for a stock 430 rear wheel and you'll get 'fidgety' handling due to the excess rubber at the shoulders...

<Calculations for the tyre sizing is simple enuff, one taught to me by Pirelli engineers when they came down to Malaysia years ago. It's ( Section X Aspect ratio X 2 divide by 100 ) + ( 25.4mm X Wheel Diameter ). I don't have the site handy but rather than doing calculations and not sure of what available tyres are there in your neck of the woods, maybe someone can chime in but the tyre-calculator site is something like miata.com or something to do with Miata.... >

As you can see the Front to Rears rolling diameter of the Front Engined cars are quite similar since the motor's up front and the wide wheels at the rear are for power transfers and grip etc...For the mid-engined cars, the F to R RD are way different since the rears have to take the weight of the motor and yet to transfer the power to the ground.

The difference between the overall rolling diameter IF you put on the 19"s of the 430 wheels will be circa +/- 22mm (notwithstanding different manufacturers 'real' tyre sizes, some are bigger than others for a given size. Pirelli has always been the thinnest and Yokohama well known for being 'fatter' than the inscripted size on the sidewall ).

It should fit and unless your car is lowered, should clear the wheel arches well enough. Having said that, if you run 19" wheels, regardless whether it's OEM Ferrari or aftermarket, you MUST lower the car to have it 'optically' correct since the thinner sidewalls will make the car look 'lifted' or 'low-rider-ish... Rule of thumb is, the gap between top of tyre to wheelarch/fender must be LESS than the thickness of the tyre's sidewall.

Note :Apologies for the lengthy post but it's like 1600 here in China and it's a Sunday...hehe..

 

Looks good with them Modena wheels I must say..

1. Handling (as far as wheel/tyre combo goes) wouldn't suffer IF the tyres are optimal for the wheels, i.e, tyres are non too wide nor non too thin for the width of the wheel.

Standard Modena sizes are :

F : 215/45/18 on 8 X 18 wheels.
R : 275/ 40/18 on 10.5? X 18 wheels.

Now,for a 456 to go 18" without messing up the speedo, tyre sizes shall be :

F :255/40/18
R : 295/35/18

A 255 section on an 8" wide front is doable but not optimal. Converted to Imperial, you'll have circa 10" tyre width 8" of wheel width. In short, regardless of the difference of tyre manufacturer's sizing, you're gunna have about an inch (25.4mm) of 'shoulder slack' on either side of the wheel.

Rear's not too bad..assuming a stock 360M rear wheel is 10.5" wide. A 295 section will be approximately 11" wide and therefore you'll have circa 0.5" slack either side of the wheel rims which is okay.

< Too wide a tyre will cause 'squirming'/squirelling' on the tyre during hard cornering and/ or braking. Too thin a tyre (width-wise) will have the tyre too 'stretched' and may cause the tyre to 'peel' off or 'un-bead' itself during hard cornering and/ or braking. Kerbing the wheels too, since the wheels are not protected by the tyre's sidewall.Rule of Thumb is < than 15mm per side of the rims max. >

2. Yep, you'll have to run spacers at the rears. Hill Engineering items and Daniel at Ricambi can get 'em for you.

3. Speedo will be as before IF you run the proper 18" combo as above. It'll be outta whack if you run stock Modena tyre sizes.

Sorry for the long-winded explanation..again.. but I guess you'd be better off with either a straight Novitec NF wheels or HRE/Fikse/Forgeline/Kinesis on 19".

Bear in mind though, that the Novitecs are notoriously heavy and 19" wheels will also render your brakes looking er...puny.. You'll have more unsprung weight too. Some will say that the idea of a bigger contact patch of tyres that comes with 19" wheels will negate the unsprung weight issue.My strong suggestion is for you to go the OEM V12'er route, i.e 550/575M wheels. Caveat Emptor on the 550 wheels though since quite a few batches had problems with the inserts on the Mg wheels. 575M wheels are pretty nice and on 18" your unsprung weight won't be affected by much. The wheels will bolt right on but as in most 550/575 they'll be 'inset' a bit. Just a 15mm spacer on the rear to make it look better.

612/599 wheels can't be fitted. They run a totally different Pitch Circle Diameter/bolt pattern, 114.3X5 against 108X5 of every other Ferrari. Funny thing is, 114.3 PCDs are mostly Japanese. Run by Toyota/Mitsubishi/Nissan for aeons.....

 

could the 430 Rear wheels be mounted on the front of a 456 w/ 275's tires?

 

It has been tried before, all 4 rear wheels of 18" BBS 360 Challenge on a 550 by an AUS Fchatter, StephenS.Therefore, rear wheels of the 360/430 should fit straight onto the 456. Being 19" however, you might have to get the correct tyre size to maintain the same rolling diameter so as not to mess up your speedo readings.

275/35/19 at 675.1mm OD is okay and closest to the original 17" OD (661.3mm).A 13mm difference in OD is close to speedometer's tolerance and the front weight of the 456 on an ultra lowish profile tyre will render the OD to be less once the tyres are 'run-in'.....Problem is, are there tyres made in 275/35/19 in your neck of the woods?

 

For 19" option wheels, the stock size on the 575M was 255/35 19 F and 305/30 19 R. Matches the height of rear 18" wheels with 255/40 18 F and 295/35 18 R. 26.13" for 18s and 26.20" for 19s.

((295 X 0.35 x 2)/25.4) + 18 = 26.13", ((305 x 0.30 x 2)/25.4) + 19 = 26.20 ". Difference of less than 0.3%.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I checked at TireRack. It's a lot easier to find 19" front tires (255s) with a 26" diameter than rears (285). You give up width when going up to 19s as far as I've been able to determine. I'm also not too keen on putting 25mm spacers on my car. Makes for some pretty long bolts to handle the torque. I'm sure lots of guys think it's okay, but the idea bothers me. I'd rather have wheels with the proper offset to begin with.

 

Allan- 25 mm spacers are no big deal, but you do not want ones using longer wheel bolts. Look at Ricambi's Hill Engineering spacers. What you want are the ones where the spacer bolts to the hub with five bolts and the wheel bolts to the spacer using the standard wheel bolts. No problems with those.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Thanks. I'll take a look. I imagine there wouldn't be too much impact on the unsprung weight.

I'm not certain that I'd want to go all the way to 19"s because of the effect on the ride and the difficulty in finding tires in the right size. And I'm not infatuated with the stock 550 wheels--too plain. I've seen some great looking wheels on ebay that, from what I've been able to glean from PMs with fellow f-chatters, are of pretty good quality. However, the guys that sell them are apparently kind of sleazy. And I can't rationalize spending what amounts to 15-25% of my car's current market value on a set of Novitecs. Also, Grigio Ingrid is a pretty subtle color and not amenable, in my aesthetic sense at least, to wheels with a lot of bling as black or rosso corsa might be.

 

Allan- Give me a little time and you can have the 18" wheels on my 575M if you want them after after I replace with 19" Novitecs. Should not be that expensive and includes nearly new tires. Around $3500, I would imagine.

No problem finding 255/35 19 tires or 305/30 19 tires if you want to go that way. Max width of 9" F and 11" rear wheels for those sizes. Both Pirelli and Michelins available, plus Bridgestones (IIRC) available. Expensive, but available.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Thanks, Taz, I'll keep that in mind. I'm not in a real rush (dark, wet winter has descended upon the pacific northwest). As for tires, I was hoping to put on Goodyear F1 GS-D3s, based on the reviews I'd seen in TireRack and the negatives I'd heard about the Pirellis.

These are the 19" wheels I was looking at that had a good look and great price. Don't know about the weight:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350139474672&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

The offsets are 35mmF and 38mm rear. Shipping and bolts add another $200, but still pretty impressive. Too bad the dealers have a bad rep.

 

Allan- Pretty sure (99%) those wheels are made in China. Not sure you want to do that. 400 or so ft lbs of torque through Chinese cast wheels sounds pretty scary to me. There are a bunch of threads on those wheels and another similar style. You probably want to review them before making the jump. If you buy them, I would have them magnafluxed before mounting to make sure there are no dangerous faults.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Thanks, Taz. That occurred to me, too, although the question of engineering (even if maganfluxing shows no faults in the casting process) to torque load would probably have come out by now, I would hope. However, from my recollection of past threads, I don't think they have a TUV (I think that's the designation)-type certificate.

 

Allan- The magnafluxing would show faults, but not what type of aluminum was used and whether it was really a suitable alloy for a very high performance car. Nippy (Chris) in an earlier post stated he has seen all kinds of problems with Chinese wheels mounted on Ferrari V8s. I personally would stick with American or European wheels where the manufacturer is too afraid of a lawsuit to get it wrong. Losing a wheel at 85 mph would do a whole lot of damage.

I looked at a set of the wheels by the same manufacturer that were really attractive, but further research scared me away. Plus the rears were too narrow. Good looking, but dangerous. Reminds me of an old girlfriend I had once.

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/MOD/Ferrari-4-Wheel-Sets/19-inch-Ferrari-Style-_-4-wheel-set/534004/



Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I'll stick with US/european/japanese (I assume okay) wheels.

FWIW, I've had a girlfriend like that; it only takes one to make you kick the psycho-chick habit.

 

Allan- Japanese OK. They are as paranoid as US/Europe. Pyscho chicks only fun for about a week. Stuff gets real thin after that.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I have a set of those wheels on my 456: they look ok, but I would not recommend anyone to buy them, even for half the price.
I have to use Hill Engineering 25mm spacers in the back and 3 out of 4 would not center on the hubs and could not balance them.
Finally I figured out what the problem was, had some additional rings manufactured and all is fine now for the kind of driving I do.
I had started my search for 19" rims with the Tire Rack, but when they could not help I went directly to OZ wheels in Italy.
It took them about one month to figure out which model and what combination of parts would make up the correct offset for my car.
In the meantime I was looking at the rims on e-bay and I ended up being the only bidder at the starting price of $ 960.00 or so.
Since then the company changed name several times, as they have major problems with the products they sell and ZERO customer service.

 

Alfredo- Thanks for the update. Do you have any photos you could post? Of the MOD wheels and, especially, the OZs when you get them.

Taz
Terry Phillips