308 needs a major I need a drink

I'm not quite clear. Have you had the belts replaced already? By "all seals", was he more specific? Does he propose to pull the engine?
Certainly, replacing 23yr old rubber is a good idea, to put it mildly.
My personal rave: Check the cam drive pulley outer bearings. They are sealed, lubed for life. If one goes, you lose 16 valves.

 

I would have your "local" mechanic do all the work. Or better yet replace all the hoses your self and save that cost. Any decent mechanic is more than qualified to replace hoses.

 

Including valve adjust and cam seals, 4k give or take 500.00. (without doing cam drive bearings.)
Note: If you do the outers you need to do the inners and that usually requires engine out to do it right.

 

I have never had this problem, but most of the threads I've read about the drive bearings suggest replacing only the outer bearing if they are leaking. I have been told by at least 4 very prominenet independent Ferrari Techs that the inner bearing rarely fails on a 308. Also why replace that bearing if it isn't leaking, wobbling, or making noise?

A recent post by Rifledriver suggests that the 308 head should not require re-torqing.

Also, the only fluid that gets drained during a belt replacement is about 2 gallons of coolant.

Once again, if you are not able to do some work yourself take the car to your independent mechanic. Save the money. I have had my car worked on only by a local mechanic and myself in the last 20 years.

 

Wait a minute: I know that there is NO way to adjust the clutch on my 1983 308QV Mondial. It is hydraulic. I doubt that your 308 is any different. Who's telling you this? The Ferrari dealer or local mechanic? This statement would make me question the mans knowledge and/or honesty. (Unless I'm wrong about the clutch). Also, the consensus here, is that when you do the belts, you do the tensioners. Your guy didn't know that? No.5: "with adjustments and cleaning of injectors". I'm unaware of how the injectors can be "adjusted". This guy makes me nervous.

As to the outer bearings, you ck for drive pulley "wobble" when the belts are off. There should/must be none. If there is no wobble, AND there is no oil leakage, leave 'em alone. IMHO, unless the wobble is really pronounced, the inner bearings need not be replaced. This has been discussed in other threads. Either way, if you replace the bearings, you need to replace the seals.

 

It depends on how much longer you plan to keep the car. If you plan to keep it for a long time, do it right and to enjoy and worry free.

 

What does he mean it needs major overhaul of all seals? Replacing all seals doesn't mean major overhaul.
Anyway, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion but replacing the timing belt, cam seals, and all hoses is
a good start.

 

If you ar enot a DIYer then this ought to give you a good baseline service and going through. Good PM for an old car it seems to me. If you start nit picking a seasoned Ferrari mechanic when youaren't really sure what you are talking about that is sure to aggrevate them. Sounds like you went to the dealer to get it done right by an outfit with experience. Might as well go through with it. Seals, gaskets, retorques, rubber brake hoses are all good things to deal with on a 30 plus year old car. Just my .02 PB

 

I don't believe his clutch is hydraulic. It's cable operated and does require adjustment.

 

I would get the estimate in writing. The 308 clutch is not hydraulic. I would get new timing belts and timing belt bearings from the Ferrari dealer. See what oil seals are leaking, if there are any seals leaking on the timing belts get those seals replaced at the Dealer.
Look at the water pump. If you have your mechanic do the water hoses, he will need to bleed the cooling system

Cooling hoses and brake lines can be done by a good mechanic and most DIY owners.

Good luck

 

+1 308's and 328's use cables.

Dave

 

Sounds like you're better off buying your own lift and doing most of the work yourself. We're here to help.

 

I stand corrected.

 

Why wouldn't you do it RIGHT no matter how long you aim to keep the car??

Are you suggesting that one cut corners and leave the hidden problems/issues to be some one else's problem/expense....???

Sorry, but that is a BS way to live a life.

Do it once and do it right...

 

Yes!

F-chat is an incredible place where like minded owners and enthusiasts alike provide support and real world advise to help others.

I would pose to the OP, that you spend the next few non-drving months searching/scouring & religiously reading F-chat archives to learn as much as you can about majors/cam belts/bearings/oil leaks/PPI's/etc so that you yourself can look the mech in the face and say...that BS!

F-chat is here to help...no question, but at the same time a person who jumps into a 25+ YO 308 with no service records, no PPI, no apparent shade tree mech inclinations....... also has to put forth the effort to learn a little about the mechanics of the car, the desgin philosophy, the known problems, the expected cost of repairs, etc.

F-chat is here to help.

 

My 2 cents (or in today's dollars about 1/4 cent)

Well, makes sense to me to replace anything that will cause bigger problems down the line. However, some non critical items may be put off until later. Judgement call. However, the items you mentioned are all routine except for the seals. The clutch has been picked apart already, but, what is he adjusting on the engine?

Area dependent. However, IMHO $160 a side for replacing the brake lines is robbery. Get a second opinion from another Ferrari mechanic.

As stated below, the lines can be done in your garage. Or, take it to the local independent BMW/Porsche/Mercedes guys to replace them for you. Any good foreign car guy can replace those type of items. Ask around the BMWCCA or PCA guys and get some recommendations. I've found, that in general, the higher line car mechanics will take better care of your car than the local Honda/Chevy guys. YMMV.

That varies by mechanic, location and by your driving style! Do you plan to drive the car a lot? Take her out only occasionally? If you drive her every week(ish) then the intervals should be no different than any other car. If it is more of a summer garage queen, then I'd swap them out once a year. Don't forget to check your manual also.

Don't hold me to my schedule (I drive the car and get her VERY warm down here):

Oil (synthetic): 6 mo/6K or 1 year
Gearbox (synthetic): 15K or 2 years (1 year if you don't drive it)
Diff (synthetic): 15K or 2 years (1 year if you don't drive it)
Brake fluid: 1 year (humid here and I believe Rifledriver suggested every year instead of every 2)
Coolant: 2 year flush. (no winters here and I've added water-wetter)
Horn: 7.5K miles
Hinge lube: yearly


If you haven't, contact the PA guys on the sub-forum and find a good independent in you "local" area. Get him to take a look a the car and have him break everything down for you and EXPLAIN why he suggests what he suggests. In my own case certain things I thought were important and should be changed/fixed ASAP weren't. My mechanic saved me money in labor by saying "do this at this time when this is apart not now when NOTHING is apart". Again, for non-critical stuff.

One other thing I've found helpful. I've taken my 308 in to his shop for oil and brake fluid changes on alternating cycles. Yes, I can get my hands dirty and have done these jobs before. However, now my expensive toy gets a going over by a professional every six months on the lift. Also, I'm building up goodwill by keeping my face and car known at the shop. Cheap at any price. Again, YMMV. Good luck.

 

Greetings.. You in PA right? Why don't you give JIm from Pocono Sportscar a call. He is a great mechanic and takes great pride in his work. He is also a member here on F chat (Dr. Ferrari) I was so pleased with his establishment. Give him a call and talk to him. 570-296-6486.

Robbie

 

He's at our local Ferrari Dealer, I'm sure, and they have excellent mechanics. In fact their mechanics just came in 1,3,4 and 5 in the national competition that Ferrari held for their Master mechanics.

The guy looking at his car, unless I'm very mistaken, finished first in the USA and is currently in Italy competing against the best of the rest of the world.

I highly doubt he would suggest any repairs to the car that aren't necessary, and would not dog pile on stuff for the sake of running up the bill. In addition, try to remember the mechanic doesn't set the prices for parts or labor, he just determines what needs to be done.

As to the suggestion that captglen got 15% off because they are slow, that's not exactly correct. The dealer extends a 15% discount to all its customers in December and January because they are seasonally slower every year at this time. It's not a special, "Holy ****" we need the work discount being extended just in this instance. Nor is it a desperate attempt to get him to leave the car.

I've always had my cars serviced at this dealer. The Dino and the 360. I'm not a mechanic, don't claim to be, and would not undertake this kind of work myself. Additionally, I believe that having a dealer or good independent do the work helps at resale time. A receipt for the actual work trumps a receipt for parts only when the prospective buyer wants to know if you kept up on the maintenance.

Just my $.02? I'd have them do the work. You can enjoy a trouble free car, know that it will stop when you want it to, go when you goose the pedal, and always have the dealer and his crew ready to back their service up. (Disclaimer, I am a huge fan of this dealership, and think they do outstanding work. this may be affecting my post. )

 

Glenn, after you have everything done, things that need to be done, then we'll celebrate and we all drink with you

 

All rubber goods manufactures suggest that hoses, belts and wipers be replaced from 18 to 24 month intervals. If the hoses and belts have not been changed to your knowledge by all means do it now. It was suggested here that only a couple of gallons of anifreeze would be needed when refilling the sytem. If the antifreeze has been in the car for over 2 years it needs to be fluhsed out and changed at this time as well.

You can buy ph test strips and check the alkaline content of the present anifreeze. We always check that in any aluminum motor. Keeping in mind with an aluminum motor and electrical connections thu out the vehicle and adding a battery you have a great sorce for a chemical reaction. When antifreeze is new there are inhibitors added to minimize the corrosive action. Over time this protection deminishes.

I suggest you use a premium grade of anitfreeze not the bottom line discount stores private brands. Keep in mind that when full strength antifreeze is added you must delute it to the manufactures reccomendations. Never run full strength coolant. It should be mixed 50/50 with a very pure distilled water. Full strength antifreeze will not cool as well or will not give the proper freeze protection. This is not a case of more is better!!!! I always add water wetter make the water more slippery and run cooler. We use that in all turbo Subarus and have had no issues.

Hoses and belts have a shelf life and an effective running life. Hoses run under extreme conditions both heat and pressure. Most hoses are designed to run around 16 pounds per square inch of contant pressure. Most shops only replace the upper and lower hoses and think they have done their job, wrong!!!!!! there are a miriade of small hoses and heater hoses that are subject to the same heat and pressures as the upper and lower hoses. We always replace all small by-pass hoses and heater hoses at regular intervals. We use nothing but genuine manufactures hoses not inferior aftermarket. There is a reason why aftermarket parts are less expensive,most always it has to do with substandard materials. Also never use worm gear hose clamps, with their design they actually bruise the hose and can weaken the hose where it is clamped. We only use wire wound clamps. These are made of round wire and tighten with a machine thread screw. The very design allow equal pressure to be put on the hose around the entire circumfrance. They will not cut or bruise the hose. At the same time we replace the alternator and a/c belts. We explain to our customers that we are doing everything in our power to not have them broken down on the side of the road.

As a protection for yourself ask the dealer to save all your hoses and belts. As a mater of fact it is always a good idea to always ask for all replaced parts. You then know which parts have actually been replaced. Keeping the old belts and hoses may just allow you to limp home after an unexprected breakage. We always offer our customers their rubber goods after replacement, it is cheap insurance. My reccomendation is to replace all hoses, belts and antifreeze at this time. You will now have a base line to schedule future maintenance.

Howard
tr07678

 

Lots of good replies. Some things arent being shown clearly though. Most modern cars, your Honda's, etc, they are all throw away cars. They give you these exceedingly high maintainance intervals, and build the car just good enough to more or less make it that far, by which point they hope to sell you a new car.

Ferrari's and their ilk are different, they are designed with a more or less unlimited life, but require heavy maintainance. And if not maintained, their life can become exceedingly short.

If you have no records and everything looks old, and in addition have oil leaks, you can expect a failure is imminent. And it could be catostrophic in not only money, but time. Too many get into these cars thinking they can nurse them by until they can pawn it off on someone else, or just do a mediocre service and call it good. But your playing with fire thinking this way.

To replace the cam seals the cam covers need to come off. One would HOPE that a valve clearance check/adjustment would take place on a car like this. Retorque the heads? Both my cars had loose head bolts, maybe your luckier? There have been many threads posted of these cars tearing up the lower drive gear bearings, usually right after a major service. This makes sense as a new belt and new proper tension accelerates taking out an old bearing that is long past its life limit. Your down into the engine, might as well yank out the left fuel tank and route a new heater hose through the rocker panel. Might as well replace ALL the coolant and 100% replace EVERY fuel line. Might as well just roll up your sleeves and get the car back up to standards?

Cars without records that look old and tired, are ticking timebombs. So many things could happen to take that car out of this world you probably would run out of lines in a notebook page before you would run out of issues. Fix it at the dealer, fix it at your best known independent, or better yet, spend the same amount of money and build your own workshop and learn to do it yourself. But in any case, fix it or sell it off now to someone more interested. The dealer is probably going to hit you with $5K plus to do the car up right, and its probably well worth it as your getting the best knowledge and they will stand behind it better than anybody. But for that same amount of money, you could buy a nice car lift, a lot of decent tools, and all the parts to do the job yourself. Nothing will ever beat knowing and understanding your own car. Not damned thing.

 

Get the work done and continue driving the car. Sorry but it is that simple.... this ain't brain surgery. If you have a good mechanic (and it sounds from others account you do!) and he suggests getting it done, do so. Oh yeah, have that drink while the car is in the shop!!

Enjoy the car!!