599 or Alfa 8C

Don't talk to me about "faux" issues with the F355. Cracked manifolds and later worn out valve guides cost me a fortune on my 20,000 miles F355, one of the most beautiful but undoubtedly the most disastrously unreliable car I've ever had.

 

Clarkson is a journalist 1st, Tv personality 2nd, and somewhere very far down the list a Driver!! In fact his Skills are rather weak for someone who has been a motor jouro for 30 years and claims to have driver pretty much everything. You just have to looks at his basic techniques while he is doing his videos tests to see that he is not a skilled wheel man! I'm not saying that he does not have vast knowledge or some valued options, but I have never listened much to him on how cars drive or handle!

He also said that he thought that his Ford GT did not handle, something that the Evo Mag UK boys seemed to find rather amusing !

 

Let me guess, you have vast racing and driving experience? Cause I am thinking that a guy that can keep up with a Ferrari test driver probably can handle a car reasonably well. Just MO.

 

I have a hard time believing the Ferrari test driver was giving it his all ...Clarkson is great when it comes to powersliding though.

 

I had two 355's and the manifold cracked on the first one before 15,000 miles. The second one had less miles and I drove it for less than a year.

The service manager at the time indicated it was pretty common.

 

It didn't do too well on the Top Gear Track, when it was driven by the stig, who i believe to be an excellent driver, Apparently even current F1 drivers have said that he is a very good driver.

I didn't mean to start a whole debate about Clarkson btw.

 

+1000

The F355 had two serious design flaws: manifolds and valve guides. Sure, certain billionaires may claim that these are "faux" problems since they have the luxury of selling their Ferraris with only a few thousand miles on the clock, and never have the misfortune of finding out about these problems that usually happen to the less wealthy second or third owners.

 

If there were in fact "design flaws" then why is not every 355 subject to these failures?
I was the second owner of my first '95 355, and the 3rd owner of my second, also a '95, the supposed worst year from a maintenance perspective. Each logged signinficant mileage. Each was used and cared for as required by good Ferrari mechanics. A number of acquaintances, including the guy who bought my first and used it for 6 years, on street and track, have had the same experience as mine. At the end of the day there are many factors that contribute tothe wair and tair of various parts, but I am stating my experience based on pure empirical evidence available to me, nothing more. I am not certain as to the number of 355's in the Us but it has to be in the few thousands at least and while there may be many voices here that disagree, you represent a pretty small sample of 355 owners across the country.
Regardless, this is the wrong place for the discussion. We can pick up on it on the 355 thread.

 

I haven't read all of the responses to your question, but the 599 is in a different league. No offense to Maserati whatsoever, but the 8C is just a Maserati dressed in Alfa clothes. Personally, I'd rather have a Maserati GranTurismo S, and a whole lot of money in my pocket versus an 8C. In terms of looks, I think the Maserati is better looking too.

I would take a 599 all day long, and twice on Sundays. You are really comparing apples to oranges.

 

Very cool car

 

Just to close the discussion - I take your point, but let me explain. I work in product engineering myself and I know what I am talking about. The process for a new product to be approved for release is to accept that there will be some possible failure modes (nothing is perfect!) but the engineering process should take care of minimizing the risks of any of these failure modes happening. This is usually reflected in certain metrics that are calculated during the durability testing and lab testing phase. Basically these metrics will tell the chief engineer whether there is a higher than acceptable risk of failure.

The fact that your cars were not affected means nothing: "higher than acceptable" failure occurrences does not mean that 100% of cars will be affected, the "unacceptable" level may be as low as 1% for serious failure modes (such as exhaust manifolds and valve guides). The truth remains that a higher than acceptable number of F355s was affected by these failure modes, and that these parts should never have been released for production without corrective action.

 

Great post

 

I also get your point. But, show me the emperical data that proves your contention. I have yet to see anyone post real numbers to prove their point. All I have is my own experience, as do you. So at this point, your statement as factual as it is, also proves nothing.

 

True. All I have is the general consensus among enthusiasts worldwide that these are trouble areas for the F355, also confirmed by all the Ferrari specialists I have talked to. My manifolds were done at the well known Ferrari experts "Motor Service" of Modena (Italy), while my valve guides (and the whole engine with them) were done by "Daytona" of Pistoia, also in Italy. Both the chief engineers of these garages confirmed that my problems were far from uncommon. But admittedly I have no empirical data to back my statements with.

 

Although many of us, including myself, experienced this manifold design flaw personally, it would be nice to get this thread back on topic.

Jim, in two years what do you project to be the price difference of the 8C and the 599? Additionally, how difficult do you think will it be to get a used 8C next fall?

 

OK, no more hijacking

 

As there are only about 75 US cars they may hold up a bit but neither 599's or 8C's will be immune to the world economic situation.

I've but a few miles on mine and really like it. It's weight is 50/50 and you can feel that it is.

Best

 

ibid

 

With regret sold my 8C. As I mentioned before I cannot register it in HK as it is LHD. Only RHD cars can be registered. I of course knew this when I bought it but in the time that has past since I ordered the car until delivery it has become increasingly troublesome to use the car at all with a temporary plate. I will only keep LHD supercars like 288 GTO or F40 now.

To those of you who live in places where you can licence an 8C, ENJOY!!! What a special car and IMO deadly deadly beautiful

 

Finally saw the 8C with my own eyes (Beverly Hills Ferrari).
Regardless of the reported performance numbers ,that car is truly special.....

 

Video:
http://www.autojunk.nl/clips/view/149676

Pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenclaes/sets/72157609207314397/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/denniske/sets/72157609191256450/

 

________________________________________
I finally had the chance to see a Alfa 8C close up, I was in Beverly Hills this Saturday and there it was riding besides me, at first I was not sure of the over all look of the car. If I were polite I would start this post with IMHO, but screw it. As nice as the Alfa is, and it is nice, it in NO WAY will ever compare to a Ferrari. No way, No how, Not possible, wont happen. Its a nice car, its not a 550, its not a 599, hell I like my 348 better. It reminds me of a updated Alfa Montreal, nice enough car, but am not sure what it is, but its not 100%. Sounded nice as it took off, love the rear light treatment. Again nice car, not worth the money or all the press, I thinks its more about Alfa back in the USA that is the bigger story, again maybe I should of started with IMHO, but like I said screw it, you would have to be blind deaf and dumb to compare this to a F car. Harsh, I know so let the flaming begin. I can take it.

 

What color is that 599? Rubino?

 

I'll go and get a check-up from my doctor then...

 

Please wait for me, I'll come with you, as I must be blind deaf and dumb as well.