Break In on 308 QV

I just had a very professional engine out rebuild on my 308 QV. The guy who rebuilt it says I need to put 2500 to 3000 on it before I start banging on it. Man, that will take me three years to put that kind of milage on it, driving once a week like I normally do. I put 1000 miles on it last year almost to the exact amount. Does anyone have an oppinion on the proper break in (miles, rpms, ect...). Please let me know.
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You'll have it broken in about 2 1/2 to 3 years from now i guess.

Looks great btw.

 

Read the owner's manual. It gives a detailed account on the break in period. I think it describes an even longer break in process (I am on a trip so do not have access to the manual).

Nicely done refinishing of the air box.

Jeff

 

I'd be more than happy to come down and break it in for you! I'll do it gently driving from golf course to golf course....

I think your mechanic is trying to tell you something!

JIM(I put over 10K on mine this year...)

 

I would stay under 5000 rpm for the next couple thousand miles and then change the oil at 3000.

I hate to tell you this but you are going to have to DRIVE that thing. 1000 miles a years is as much abuse to it as not breaking it in properly. Plus it's fun.

 

This is word-for-word from my 1983 308 GTBi QV (euro) owners manual:

"Replace engine oil and filter when performing the coupons A (1,000 miles) and B (2,500 miles). Afterwards, replace again the oil and the filter every 6,250 mls. Immediately after starting, do not run at high R.P.M. until the oil temperature has reached 160 degrees F."

"RUNNING-IN PROCEDURE" (page 24) "Avoid, under all circumstances, the maximum R.P.M. figures shown in the table above for long periods, and especially when climbing hills. A new car requires at least 3,000 miles to be fully run-in."

Here is what the "table above" basically stated: Distance Covered/Max engine speed = up to 600 miles/4,500 R.P.M. ; from 600 to 1,800 miles/5,500 R.P.M. ; from 1,800 to 3,000 miles/Increase progressively up to 7700 R.P.M.
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BTW - The red powdercoat looks awesome!

 

Don't keep it on a constant steady speed when you drive it, this way the bottom and the top of your piston ring will wear/seat evenly when you accelerate then decelerate. Do this for the next 2000 miles, actually 1500 miles is good enough but the longer the better.

Sometime the life and the condition of the engine in the future depends on how you break-in to begin with.

 

Plus it's already rebuilt, so the odometer is irrelevant. I think Dr. Tommy is right on.

 

First, DRIVE THE DARN THING will ya???

Lots of good advice here. Change the oil after 500 miles, then after another 1000 and use dino (not synth) oil for this. Then at 3000 miles do a change to synth oil. Agree, do not keep the same speed and keep her under 5k rpm. Was at the factory and they do break in using HIGH rpm to help seat things. Am sure you used a highly qualified engine builder and they ran an engine dyno and gave you a sheet of the performance? Would liek to see a scan of that sheet, as am curious what a 308 engine does when 'new'.

 

+1 on this advice. Your from Florida & you only put 1K miles/year ??? :O

I'm expecting about 5K miles on my 308 and this was a very limited driving year for me.

 

We sell to "professional" engine rebuilders and race teams, and they add a little moly powder to the engine oil for break-in (as well as coating the gears, piston skirts, and other parts in moly prior to assembly). I agree that you should drive your car more, but I'll vary with the group a little and say that 1,000 miles is plenty.

 

Man that engine looks great! Congrats on the new motor. I hope to be in the same position you re in about a month from now.

 

How many people properly wear in a Ferrari anyway? You have to figure a good percentage of the people who buy these cars new do not keep them that long. I figure the first owner of our mondial probably burned rubber on the way out of the dealership. I would take it easy for the first 500 miles but there is no way I could resist punching it for much longer than that. Shoot, I have a hard time just waiting for the temps to come up.

 

Amen. Heck, i did at least 1k miles a year ON THE TRACK in the 308.... let alone another 5+k on the street here in New England where we get 5 months of real winter (though i did have Blizzak ties for winter driving and iced lake driving). One of the most educational drives was when i learning more about vehicle dynamics by driving the 308 on an iced lake.

You need track time

www.enjoythetrack.com/video/

 

Was the engine rebuilt (to factory specs) or blueprinted? I did professional engine building for street performance and competition engines for many years. The engines came out of the shop "broken-in" because they were all blueprinted and then run on the dyno/track to complete the process. The actual "break-in" of a blue printed engine can be measured in minutes, not THOUSANDS of miles. What is the warranty on the engine? Does it exceed his recommended "break in" period?

 

Same here. While I have not rebuilt a Ferrari engine, I have had others rebuilt, and have done like above. Do you need to change the oil at 500 miles? Mabe not, but with the cheap cost of a change why not air on the side of caution. If nothing else it will remove any fine metal pieces that are bound to develop with any new engine. Oil is the blood of any engine, especially in a Ferrari where the oil not only lubricates but cools as well. The more you change it during the break-in period, the better the engine will run down the road. Drive it, vary the speed/rpms frequently and change the oil frequently. Good luck and enjoy the drive.

 

It was rebuilt to factory specs

 

First...hook up the fuel injection

 

BTW...since I live in the vicinity...who is "the guy" who did the work?

I rebuilt a 914 2.0 liter engine a few years ago. I broke it in initially [first few hundred] using the accel/deccel method and even used the engine for braking to a degree. It will help seat the rings much better. I also concur with using regular [dino] oil initially, then go to synthetic. When all is said and done the builder's advice should be followed....especially if it has a warranty.

 

Imho yes. The mico metal bits as things mate need to go. Like you said, with the cheap cost of oil/filter, makes no sense not to change. i can do an oil change in a 308 as fast as the local guys at Jiffy Change.

FYI: i ALSO change the tranny oil on ANY new car (or rebuilt tranny) after a few hundred miles. Many people overlook the tranny

Got a dyno sheet? Any real engine rebuilder will have an engine dyno.

 

Any real engine rebuilder will have an engine dyno

I don't agree...I'd suggest that the vast majority of engine rebuilders do not have and do not rent or otherwise use one. I have never heard of an auto dealer shop, for example, use a dyno for their rebuilds. That doesn't make them bad engine rebuilders. Building to factory specs is what the factory does and most factories do not dyno their engines either. I'm not suggesting that building/dyno-ing isn't a good thing but it's really not very common execpt in shops whose primary work is in performance/competition engine building. Even those shops don't dyno every engine they work on depending on what level of work is being done and what the customer wants.

Precision work as far as assembly has nothing to do with the dyno anyway. If an engine is being rebuilt to factory specs, I wouldn't dyno it myself as part of the rebuild - it isn't necessary because you are not trying to increase engine power and determine what any changes produced. There are no "changes" to the motor so other than the curiosity factor, dyno-ing is of no help in this situation and just adds expense. You are just "returning" the engine to like-new condition.

 

Well then, they must not be high-end engine rebuilders then are they? They also do not seem to desire checking their work via proper testing, and perhaps finding problems and/or tuning their engines for best performance. So yes, they do not NEED a dyno if they are not professional high performance engine rebuilders. You are 100% correct.

Because they are a basic auto shop, not a proper high performance engine rebuilder. This is a Ferrari, not a Ford. i wonder if he paid Ford money for his Ferrari engine rebuild.

Sure they can rebuild engines. i can rebuild engines, so can my friends. Then again we are not professional high performance engine rebuilders charging $8k+ either.

Have you ever been to the Ferrari factory? i have. They use dyno as do many high performance/exotic auto manufacturers (or their outsourced engine providers have dyno). In fact one of the engine dyno guys at the Ferrari factory and i... nevermind.

i'd be VERY skeptical of a performance/competition shop that allowed ANY rebuilt engine to leave their facility without being dynoed. i wonder if they guy who started this thread even got a before and after normal dyno, but those things are so easy to manipulate, which is why a true ENGINE ONLY dyno is best imho.

A dyno can help in making sure of your work plus things SHOULD be checked imho anyway BEFORE final engine installation. If he paid $2k for an engine rebuild, perhaps no dyno. If he paid around $5k to have his engine rebuilt i would at least stringly ask for a dyno. If he paid over $7k an got no dyno, he got totally ripped off imho.

Any TRULY PROFESSIONAL performance engine rebuilder worth their salt has a dyno or will rent one and supply a dyno sheet. Sometimes Ferrari guys are so gullable to shell out HUGE $$$ and get so little for your money and treated like trash too. Sad. truly sad. An engine dyno can be very helful...

PS: can i rebuild your engine

 

A few questions for the experts out there (this is an interesting subject).

First, why do you need to vary the engine speed/rpm? Someone mentioned valves seating correctly, but can someone detail just a bit further explanation? (friction does something..... I'm not sure I understand the complete "technical" reason).

Second, the old air cooled 911s were (supposedly) delivered new with like 10 miles on them. The story I was told was that the factory ran the engines at high rpms (on thier track?) to ensure the engine would last and was built properly. If this is true (can someone confirm), then why all the "hand holding" on the engine break-in? Seems if Porsche can slam out the engine in the first 10 miles, Ferrari could. Aircooled 911 engines lasted for 100k miles without rebuilds, but then again, many of them were driven grandpa style.

Third, question for the OP, why did you need an engine rebuild in the first place? What were the miles on the old engine and what happened? Major catastrophy or low compression? Just curious since there was a 308 QV GTB with 128K miles on it advertised on FChat ads a while back and it seemed to have the original engine. My ex-QV needed various maintenence items, but at 45000 miles, the compression seemed good.

Just curiousity questions this morning.

James in Denver

 

Porsche also dynos all engines - or at least they used to. But they do not rebuild each engine to ensure they are the same HP. Therefore, just like Ford, the engines simply have to fall into a range of acceptable production numbers. I'd like to think that Porsche (and Ferrari) engines are required to fall into a narrower range but I don't know that...

If you take a Ferrari to a "Great" engine shop that dyno's every engine they rebuild, they just hand you a sheet showing the dyno plot. They are not going to say, "Oh, this 3.2 Ferrari is making 11 HP less than the last one we rebuilt, we better disassemble it and do it again." Not gonna happen in an engine that is rebuilt to "factory" specs because the shop has no real control over any of that simply because of the factory tolerances of the engine/replacement parts. If you wanted two engines blueprinted, that's a different story and they could ensure that they were virtually the same HP.

As I said previously, I am not denigrating the use of a dyno - I used a dyno virtually every day of my professional engine-building life. But I think it's important to realize that if you ask for an engine to be rebuilt to factory specs, the dyno will not help you or your engine. If you have mods made, THEN the dyno/track testing is invaluable to know for sure what is going on.

Dyno's are best used to evaluate changes AS THEY ARE MADE or to ensure that the engine falls within some acceptable range. But getting a dyno plot from a shop that rebuilt your engine to "factory new" has to do with marketing and appearance, not actual engine work. That being said, I will readily admit that the presence/use of the dyno and handing a dyno plot to the customer does give him/her the strong feeling that the shop is "professional."

 

Am not an expert, yet have some knowledge when hanging around with those who do (and paid the bills on some things so know what to expect/ask for). You have asked some great questions.

Pressure seating and metal bits 'mating' (plus other things).

At the factory, Ferrari also runs their engines at high rpm for quite some time before installation on their dynos.

Depends on what has happened to the engine / how it was used. Perhaps a few over-revs too many... or constant high(ish) rpms like that during track use. Compression goes down, you get leak. The metals do wear and the valve clearance changes due to various circumstances. Engine also wear at the top end and bottom end. Top end is cheaper than bottom end work...

In the Formula 2000 i had the top end main head replaced (center cam holder cracked during a race in Season 2 for me on the engine). We moved over the in-spec valves and bits to the new head. Once installed the engine was MUCH stronger due to previous race use and now refreshened top end. Won quite a few races by VERY comfortable margins after the rebuild PLUS other racers could hear that the engine was singing better, too. Before the rebuild the engine was 'used' by the previous owner and i only had compression/leakdown stats and they looked ok at the time before rebuild as was the cam timing.