Bonhams Gstaad auction & results

Let's wait for those who were there, but the statistics speak for themselvs.

The cars sold, apear to be ok in usd - but the usd fell 15 pct in the last 2 wks so figure, low results in chf/euro.
Anyhow, whatever need to be said has been discused in the prices thread. I wonder what our dealer from san-diago will say, given he has been telling us the market is very strong, and whatever he gets in his shop sells within 1 wk.

 

Wasn't there a 275 GTS at Pebble last year that sold for $451k?

 

Mr. Elads,

I have no idea who you are or where you think you get your information from but if you are going to quote me or paraphrase my statements, try and be at least a little accurate.

You come off as a fool if you do not.

I have never stated the market is; "strong" or "week" or anything for that matter. Rather than doing so, I have sighted only direct sales I was aware of or those I have completed personally myself.

Quite the contrary, I have stated time and time again, with many years of experience, that from my own point of view, I can only tell you where the market was anywhere from six moths ago to many years ago.

Furthermore, where do you come of with such a statement that cars that arrive in our store sell within a week?

This sounds like a blanket statement?

Very foolish of you to spout such things.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of the cars we have on hand take in some cases years to acquire. There subsequent sales have no set rules or limits and can range from being sold before they even arrive to sitting and gathering dust for years.

I highly suggest that if you are going to use my statements either directly or indirectly you do a small amount of fact checking first.

The sound of laughter and ridicule might otherwise follow you throughout this site...

Respectfully,

Bill Noon

 

Yes, that was # 07885. But the same car offered today, # 06819, sold at Gstaad one year ago for US$ 693,779. Down just 19% in one year in this market was quite a good result, but then again illiquid markets for heterogenous goods like old Ferraris always lag trends in other deeper and more liquid markets. It's apparent that prices today are responding much more quickly to general trends than in the '87 to '89 period, however. The Phoenix auctions will be very interesting.

 

I have driven that car a very nice little car. God luck to the new owner.

Best regards!
Magnus

 

Bill,
I don't think knowing more about me has anything to do with my or your statments.
I did try and summerize statments you have made - continously- in another thread in this forum.

My only tip would be, that if one is 100pct connected with the classic car market, and makes strong statments such that you have done, one should expect some critical examination. You are a car dealer, you have constantly made statments about record prices and quick moving cars on your showroom floor. These appear to be contrary to the general trends In the global economy and the market.
So far all I said is 100pct backed up.

I don't wish to pick a personal fight, but let's just say, that I was wondering if tonights results would change your tone, one you have repeated for many months.

Take care

Typed on a blackberry,

 

Fxs was it sold? I think it was bought in Sweden a couple of years ago.Thats why it is FXS 385 #0903.
Magnus

 

You last post makes even less sense than the one before.

Slow down a moment and try again once you collect your thoughts.

Bill

 

cat fight.

 

...about the no-sales, not the party.

 

If it sold at Gstaad a year ago, compare the sale price in SF not dollars to get a true idea of market.

 

Bingo. If we compare in Yen, this looks like a great time to buy everything we can. All the more reason to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, and especially not apples to oranges to bananas.


Jay

 

Disagree with your premise. The market for Ferraris, oil and much else is a dollar market, as most demand is dollar-based.

My Catalogo Bolaffi quotes only dollars, euro and sterling. It's easier to get FX rates from OANDA.com than digging through the Bonhams site, so I'd say the price last year was equivalent to CHF 798,685. The decline in Swiss franc terms was thus 23 %. About the same, no matter which fruit you prefer.

 

Sold in 2007 for CHF 800,576, now in 2008 for CHF 618,000 (both prices include commissions).

 

in a word....disappointing for the sellers
almost none made their min price range and many were no sales. prices all in chf without com, so roughly equivalent to the dollar price with com.
74 365gtb4 160k possible no sale
75 dino 246gts 155k
92 f40 no sale at 320k
55 lancia aurelia spider 390k possible no sale
55 121LM spyder corsa ex phil hill no sale at 3.7 mil
51 212 export spider no sale at 2.15 mil
67 275gtb/4 950k possible no sale
55 250gt boano 330k
70 365gtb/4 daytona 360k possible no sale
75 365gt4 bb 185k
77 308 gtb vetrosina 60k
69 dino 246gtb 150k
61 maserati 3500gt vignale spider 305k
83 512bbi 95k possible no sale
62 osca 1600gt coupe 65k
58 250gt tdf alu comp no sale 3.7 mil possible no sale
64 250gt lusso 680k possible no sale
69 maserati mistral spyder 3.7l 240k possible no sale
76 308gtb gr4 michelotto no sale 750k possible no sale
65 275 gts spider 550k
69 365gt2+2 spyder conversion 190k possible no sale
80 512bb 100k possible no sale
62 250gte 130k
65 275gtb/2 820k possible no sale
33 alfa 6c 330k
72 365gtb/4 daytona cut spider 220k
73 daytona 290k possible no sale
04 enzo no sale at 1.1 mil
59 250gt series ii coupe no sale 220k
71 dino 246gtb 135k possible no sale
63 250 tr recreation 195k possible no sale
63 autobianchi 15k
90 maserati quattroporte royale 24k
84 mondial qv cabriolet 18k
64 330gt 2+2 110k

 

275 and Lusso's are still strong. Mixed about the Daytonas. 365 BB strong.

Cant believe they bid up to $750k for the 308 Gr4.

 

some comments
- the f40, as predicted, was a lead balloon. nobody fooled this year.
- the 275gts seller was the same who bought it last year at gstaad for 720k, so counting coms both ways this was a good 250k down the tubes in one yr.
- the boano sure looked great, but apparently has some restoration work needed. nevertheless was put in without reserve, by a seller who needed to sell, and it made HALF of its guide price....
- i was personally very disappointed in the result for the 512bbi, but the tone of the sale was already so pessimistic at that point that the focus of the crowd had been lost.
- the other 512bb had 82,000 km on the clock and really looked rough, so i was amazed it got was high as it did. one of the few cars that exceeded my price expectations.
- the no sale on the two genuine racers was expected as they had been submitted by lawyers for the estate and were unlikely to know when to drop the reserve....shame tho since that tr looked spectacular.
- dinos have come back down to earth.
- the best sorted cars of the day: the two racers, the maserati vignale spider, the plexi nosed daytona, the silver 365bb, the 275 gtb's, 275gts, the lusso.

once again i thoroughly enjoyed myself and i met some of my previous acquaintances like jerome hardy from scm, simon kidston, the ferrari dealers in geneva, and some new friends like marcel massini. thank you all for the info and conversation today !

 

Guys

The no sales bids mean nothing. The house can bid up to the reserve.
The real interest could be way way lower.

Some will continue to Spin but the party is Over.

 

Sorry, but if i look bonhams website there is more "not sale " than on your listing

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=Catalogue&iSaleNo=16671

can you confirm ?

 

Boy, glad I did not dump my Lusso for $250K. They are still bringing over Jim's predictions. I am IN THE MONEY yeahh!!!

 

So you have about a 23% decline, which matches closely the drop of Euro/Pound/SF to the Dollar. Over the last 2 years the strong increases in the values of this segment of the collector car market has been driven by the $2.00 Pound and $1.64 Euro. Many people felt that those exchange rates created a false inflated market. And a true value should be based on a Historical average exchange rate (Euro 1 - 1.2 to 1 or 1.4 - 1.6 to 1 Pound.)

While a lot of money has been lost in the past 3 months, there is also a lot of money sitting on the sidelines looking for a safe(r) place to go, be it precious metals, collectable's whatever. Even the stock market isn't the Gloom and Doom the media and the Chicken Littles of the world would have you believe. I still say that the future looked more uncertain after 9/11 than it does now. The market was 1,000 points lower after 9/11 than it is now.



Joe

 

it is possible that i did not hear everything perfectly. it was standing room only and the auctioneer was often not specific about saying it was a no sale, ie he invited the last bidder to come speak with him etc.. so please take their website results as the better guide. i have amended my list as well.

 

Is there some part of no sale bids are made by the house
And mean nothing that you can't understand?

 

"The no sales bids mean nothing. The house can bid up to the reserve.
The real interest could be way way lower."


Which makes some of those numbers even more surprising. The 275GTS bubble really has burst. Would be interesting to know more about condition of some of the cars.

I would have liked the Autobianchi!

Thanks for the post.

 

reading the website here are FERRARI results

Sale 16671 Lot 202
Same owner (the 2nd) since 1978,1975 Dino 246 GTS Chassis no. 07620
Sold for CHF179,550 inclusive of Buyer's Premium

Sale 16671 Lot 208
1956 Ferrari 250GT Berlinetta Prototipo Chassis no. 0435GT Engine no. 0435GT
Sold for CHF362,700 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 210
1975 Ferrari 365GT4 Berlinetta Boxer Chassis no. 18219
Sold for CHF196,200 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 211
c.1977 Ferrari 308GTB Vetroresina Coupé Chassis no. 21025
Sold for CHF69,600 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 212
Formerly the property of legendary racing driver Hans Herrmann,1969 Ferrari Dino 246GT Chassis no. 00742
Sold for CHF174,000 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 213
1961 Maserati 3500GT Vignale Spyder Chassis no. AM 101.1319 Engine no. AM 101.1319
Sold for CHF346,050 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Please note there is an amendment to this lot
See full description for details
Sale 16671 Lot 221
With Ferrari Certification,1965 Ferrari 275GTS Spider Chassis no. 06819 Engine no. 06819
Sold for CHF618,000 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 224
1962 Ferrari 250 GTE Chassis no. 3003
Sold for CHF150,800 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 227
Ex-Mel Blanc, the voice of Bugs Bunny,1972 Ferrari 365GTB/4 ‘Daytona’ Spyder Conversion Chassis no. 14995
Sold for CHF251,700 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 235
The property of a deceased’s estate,1984 Ferrari Mondial Qv Cabriolet Chassis no. ZFFLC15B000050893 Engine no. F105A01876
Sold for CHF20,880 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Sale 16671 Lot 236
1964 Ferrari 330GT 2+2 Berlinetta Chassis no. 6219 Engine no. 6219
Sold for CHF127,600 inclusive of Buyer's Premium