Bonhams Gstaad auction & results | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Bonhams Gstaad auction & results

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Daytonafan, Dec 1, 2008.

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  1. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
    7,899
    St Augustine Florida
    Full Name:
    Steve Metz
    Does any one know how many of these vehicles were estate sales. Typically 30% of the market is estate sales many of these owners are forced to sell due to taxes and estate settlement guidelines in various countries.
     
  2. johnvwatts

    johnvwatts Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2007
    522
    England
    Full Name:
    John v watts
    I think that at least two of the top end cars were estate sales.
     
  3. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    The Maserati Royale, Autobianchi and the Mondial QV were estate cars, all sold.
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Speculators are your best friend. When they come in to the market, it's obvious that things are going up. When they exit the market, it's obvious that things are going down.

    So simply ask yourself if speculators are coming in to this market, or are exiting. That gives you the obvious answer for where the market is headed.
     
  5. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,692
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    If the idea that an estate sale is something like a "forced" sale, then would the price indicate the theoretical buyer's market price?
     
  6. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    I haven't followed Maser pricing, but that's the second QV cab sell for under $20k in the last couple of months.
     
  7. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    37,987
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    #157 ross, Dec 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2008
    to respond to some of you...

    the top 2 cars were from the estate of a wealthy frenchman, but the sales were obviously not forced since they didnt sell. but they will be in the next few sales this year i am sure.

    i also met francois melcion at the sale. he is the director of artcurial, the upcoming sale in paris. and his eyes were wide. he thought that the upcoming sales in the usa would be far more indicative of the market since the american sellers were already more realistic about the situation. afterwards, i caught up with him and his only remark was that the sellers had been unrealistic. you can bet that at the artcurial sale the reserves will be considerably more realistic.

    and as long as we are quoting people...as dennis gartman says frequently, '... for a market to fall, all you need is the absence of buyers...'

    and that is what we had. a very very crowded room full of watchers, me included.
     
  8. johnvwatts

    johnvwatts Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2007
    522
    England
    Full Name:
    John v watts
    Ross, did one of the 365BB sell after as the Bonhams site still say no sale to both? Same with thhe Daytona Coupe.
     
  9. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    37,987
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    my typo in the first list.
    the first 365gt bb was a no sale at 160k (this is not a daytona but a bb)
    the second 365 bb did sell at 185k and it was a beauty
     
  10. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,692
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Thanks gentlemen.
    And a merry Xmas:)
     
  11. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    Ross, when the guy who arrives in the RR Phantom isn't buying... ;)
     
  12. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    There's no compelling reason to buy...yet.
     
  13. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level

    Agreed. I'm not even on the sidelines. have moved to the bleechers...
     
  14. Garymyman

    Garymyman Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2008
    302
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Gray

    Yeesh. Looks like they spoke too soon!
     
  15. zaevor2000

    zaevor2000 Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2007
    1,897
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Frank Waugh
    #165 zaevor2000, Dec 21, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
    "The 1955 121 LM Spyder by Scaglietti, chassis no. 0558LM, was raced by the late Phil Hill (the only American to have won the Formula One World Championship), "

    excuse me, but Mario Andretti might disagree with that statement... (78 WDC w/Lotus)

    Frank
     
  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    Guys, there were NO buyers at all, NOBODY was bidding. ALL hands remained in pockets. Seriously. Everything else is wrong. Total buyer's strike. Never seen that before. It was the worst of the Gstaad auctions ever (since 11 years). It has nothing to do with reserve prices or estimates. That wasn't even important. Point is that NOBODY was bidding. Total lack of confidence now. Everybody is PARALYZED. Out of 28 Ferraris 10 were sold. The 275 GTB/4 sold post-auction on Sunday lunch time, I was personally involved. That was also the best car of the auction in terms of quality. It will remain in Switzerland, near Geneva. All three big cars failed (212 Export, 121 LM and TDF). But again: NOBODY was bidding, bids were received from the christmas tree and from the chandelier..........Life goes on!
    The world has changed.

    Marcel Massini
     
  17. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Above $725k?

    Or below?
     
  18. Arvin Grajau

    Arvin Grajau Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
    78,325
    Wurundjeri man.
    Full Name:
    Arvin Grajau
    Poor old brokers.
     
  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    275 GTB/4 #09617 was sold for Swiss Francs 1'078'627 all premiums and taxes and VAT included.

    Marcel Massini
     
  20. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Thanks. $978,524 is stronger than I expected. Must have been a *fine* machine.
     
  21. Arvin Grajau

    Arvin Grajau Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
    78,325
    Wurundjeri man.
    Full Name:
    Arvin Grajau
    rofl its for sale on Classic driver for over 5 million Aust $s
     
  22. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2006
    1,942
    europe
    Full Name:
    oscar
    Marcel,

    That 212 Export was a nice car. As I dont know the history of this particularly car very well, are there any stories? If I had the time I would have visited the auction, as there where quite some interesting cars.

    ciao
    Oscar
     
  23. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    37,987
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    guilty as charged ;)
     
  24. premieram

    premieram Karting

    Jun 10, 2004
    215
    All over the place
    Full Name:
    Joseph T. Seminetta
    Marcel:

    I am confused. Your post said 'there were NO buyers at all, NOBODY was bidding" and then it said that 10 Ferraris sold (and at strong prices).
    Please explain.

    PremierAM
     
  25. etienne

    etienne F1 Veteran

    Jan 21, 2006
    5,835
    Ferrari World...
    #175 etienne, Dec 22, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2008
    no buyers present at Gstaad... but by phone ? internet ? OK for the 275 sold on sunday, but the others 9 ?
     

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