Bonhams Gstaad auction & results

i will answer until marcel comes back....
...essentially it felt as if there were very few people there with the intention of purchasing one of the cars of consequence at a price that would have been considered normal 6 months ago.

of course 10 cars sold. dont forget that 5 of these were pretty pedestrian models of little consequence or expense and are not really indicative of anything except some uninformed and overly ambitious people wanting to take on the burden of a completely knackered mondial or a maserati quattroporte royale etc

the other 5 were sold, and not all badly, but they were also not watershed or monumental cars. marcel's normal focus is not on this type of car. hence his statement.

 

Oscar, few infos in the online catalogue : http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4128116&iSaleNo=16671&iSaleSectionNo=2

 

Hi Etienne,

Yes, that info I already got.... But as you read the info more detailed the time between 60's mid/end-70's is unknown. Also the originality of body and maintenance history is not mentioned. Buying a car like that does need some more info.

ciao
Oscar

 

You have to deduct VAT and fees to see what seller wound
up with. About 30 percent less.

 

The second 365 BB is indeed a beauty. Strange thing is, it was hammered in the room for CHF 185,000 but the Bonhams site doesn't mention Lot 210 as being sold?
I was confirmed this afternoon as being sold so it's a not so good update on the Bonhams site I assume?

 

...Exellent!....j adore!
Marcel, we haven t the same TV, it s fairly strange this reality in the face with .....

 

Marcel,

the man who made the highest bid on the Enzo stood right in front of me. He is tall as a christmas tree but still a human being. Although reserve was not met I think they made the deal.

 

I really like this...it resonates with me..

 

Around 170$ for both the sold Dino's (the other was very poor, wrong restamped number), 370$ for the early Deatona, 195$ for a very good GT/4BB, 3.7$ for a so so TdF, 1.1$ for a black two owners Enzo, 570$ for a 275 GTS, 75$ for a 308 resina (Swiss car) or 770$ for 308 Michelotto (nor certified so you don't know if it is eligible for the Historic Challenge) are not so bad in today's market - all prices from a buyers view without local taxes. The best times are gone for a long time that's true, there are still buyers on a reduced level, but only for premium cars. I remember a time not long ago I had a chance to buy a good 330 GTS for 310$ (I failed). Is there anybody out there who sells his 330 GTS for this price? Please keep in mind from which level we come.

 

There were extremely few real bidders there, very few buyers. 28 Ferraris but 10 only sold, of which three were sold only after the auction on Sunday.
Isn't that clear enough? Almost nobody was bidding. Strong prices??? NO, not at all. Disagree. People sat on their hands, just watched.
Marcel Massini

 

Marcel, is it possible that Lot 210, the silver GT4 BB, was sold on Sunday? I am a little bit confused as I was told this afternoon it was sold?
Thanks!

JR

 

Which of the Ferraris where 'premium' in your mind?

 

BOTH 365 GT4 BBs were just average and certainly NOT top cars, not very good, seriously. Did you guys look at the panel fitting? The gaps in the doors? The engine compartment? The interior? The bid of 3.7 M Swiss (NOT USD$) for the TDF was NOT real. There was NO such bid. I know for sure. STOP DREAMING GUYS!! Wake up!
Marcel Massini

 

If both GT4BBs where not premium, hi, then they reached not only fair, but very good prices.

TdF: Last bid was 3.7 CHF which is about 3.7 $ incl. premium, that's a fact. We all had that bid in the room, you too. Or was it all a great fake in your mind? I know one bid that was very real one other I saw in person, all others you might be right.

 

BOTH 365 GT4 BBs were NOT sold, as of tonight Monday, 22nd December 2008, 10 pm Swiss time. And both were NOT premium, not at all.
If ANY of the cars in that auction was near premium then it was possibly the 275 GTB/4 #09617. But nothing else for sure.

TDF: FAKE bid, not a real and serious one. Don't be naive!

Marcel Massini

 

If both 365 GT4 BBs were not sold, bad for the the sellers, they missed a fair bid.

No comment to the TdF. If it was was a fake we can forget these auctions as a proovement for market prices at all. Ok I'm naive but you too, 'cause if you're right all auctions are really nonsense and have nothing to do with the real market.

 

Marcel so the silver 365 GT4/BB did not sell, because that's not what other's posted in this thread. The Lusso brought a high bid of $680K. Was that a real bid? How was the quality of that car?

Thanks,
Gene.

 

i think the silver 365 bb sold. i certainly thought i heard that one hammered at the time.
re the tdf, marcel is NOT saying the car itself is a fake, he is saying that the BID was not genuine. i cannot confirm this myself as i did not see the hands in the air for that one, but i was in the back (about 5 ft away from marcel) so i might have missed it.

one thing that repeated itself frequently was that when there were bidders genuinely competing with each other in the room, the auctioneer strung the process out for a long time and got it right down to the last 5k before gaveling it. which leads me to believe that on those unsold, there were likely not too many bidders, and the lone bidder was not going to bid against himself - so the only possible result was either for the seller to drop his reserve or the auctioneer to pass on it. this is all indicative of the overall sentiment that i perceived which was that there were not too many real buyers willing to still pay '6 month ago prices' today.

 

The two 365 GT4 BBs: These 2 cars were just not nice enough to achieve a REAL good bid. And it is not clever to have two in the same auction. One really nice one would most probably have achieved a good result (in today's market). And in total there were FOUR Boxers which IS total nonsense.

TDF: The "bids" were fake and came from the chandelier and christmas tree and left rear window. For the owner it was a good and almost free promotion of the car, to a wider audience and since he now has the car back in his garage in Marseille he will benefit from that virtually free promotion. I disagree and am not saying that all auctions are really nonsense. However, one has to keep in mind, that auction results make - maybe - not more than 30 percent of the total results worldwide. The majority of cars are still being sold or changing hands in private deals and NOT in public. Therefore it is totally wrong to give too much weight to auction results. I do agree, however, that auctions are the ONLY public "results" to be seen/available for/to the average observer. If today a nice car sells privately, between two private parties, or between a dealer and a private person, in almost all cases the general public NEVER learns about it. I am therefore saying that one has to be extremely careful with just auction "results". SOMETIMES they may indicate a trend but many times not.

Marcel Massini

 

Ross: The silver 365 GT4 BB did not sell. ALL cars were hammered, no matter if sold or not. However, this means NOTHING. Perhaps you did notice that in almost all cases the auctioneer did NOT ask for the "successfull bidder's" number (paddle number)? Wonder why? Because there was NO genuine bid. And yes, I am saying that the bids on the TDF were not genuine. I am not saying that the car is a fake, of course. Thanks for clearing that for me!

And Ross, you got the overall sentiment absolutely right! I absolutely agree. Thank you.

Marcel Massini

 

I do NOT think that the "bid" on the Lusso was real. It also is too close to the lower estimate and reserve price. Quality: Restored but unfortunately re-sale red with black interior. Not really pretty for a Lusso. Original color of 5783 GT was Grigio Fumo with grey leather interior (smoke grey paint), a fantastic color combination (I think). The car is owned by Dutch dealer Nico Brummen. Many details in the engine compartment were incorrect with too modern items, also rear shelf behind seats not good. And then, how many Lussos are on the market right now? Twenty? It is no surprise to me that it didn't sell.

Marcel Massini

 

lets party like its 1929.

 

Is Nico Brummen from The Gallery Brummen?

They are currently offering a 250 GTE 2+2 Serie 1 which has important incorrect componants (Engine, Serie 3-body) and they are offering it as "very nice overall condition" and if you translate the Dutch version of their description it even says "original condition"!! Look at:

http://thegallery.onlinevoorraad.nl/sf2c91218ef5265b9e98118864f270da3/details/?sid=1462086

 

Of course I did not think the TdF is a fake but the highest bid, please excuse my misunderstanding words.

You're right 4 bb's are complete nonsense, 3 red Dino''s are nonsense too.

 

Brummen is the name of the town in which The Gallery is situated. Suppose Nick Aaldering is meant here.