Bonhams Gstaad auction & results

+10 !
I totaly agree ! It's just cars, wonderfull cars, but just cars...As you, I'm always happy and amazed to be here, every year since 2003, just for the show...
Congratulation for your choice, very nice memories..

 

I have a copy of this picture and it is my opinion that the images in the foreground, including Enzo, were added into this photo by a clever photo lab person. The giveaway is the darkness around Enzo"s left arm and what appears to be an empty space between Enzo"s head, in perfect focus, and the crowd behind him. I used to do this when I was doing B&W photo work and it's not that difficult.It's still a great picture. just one manm's opinion tongascrew

 

Think you're right.
Compare Enzo and the young guy to his right. Both heads facing forward at the same height but diferent shadow pattern.

 

In the Marzotto'book (Frecce Rosse), you can see other photo with Enzo, same clothes, at Brescia, piazza della vittoria. I don't know if this picture is wrong, but it seems clear that Enzo was really in brescia in 1954...

 

How much is this in US $?

 

Less VAT and fees seller would net 595k US for a nice 4 Cam.
Total price to buyer including tax and buyers fee about 800K.

 

Looking at that spread (205k) and thinking about the state of the market I'm wondering how unattractive auctions are becoming.
Happy New Year All,
David

 

They've been unattractive for a while, there has been a long trend of cars changing hands privately, especially at the top end of the market.

 

Thanks.
In your opinion what constitutes the top end of the market? Is it strictly a price level or more a matter of specific cars or models?
David

 

1,000,000.00 CHF = 935,175.91 USD
ciao
Oscar

 

Thats what I came up with also.

 

Looking at that spread (205k) and thinking about the state of the market I'm wondering how unattractive auctions are becoming.

Banks, Estate Attorneys,Feuding Business Partners and Ex Wives love auctions so for this part of the market (30-40%) this will be the way to sell high end cars.

 

Specific cars and models. The rare stuff that you almost never see at auction.

 

What part of that the sellers fee, the buyers fee and Vat
cause the sellers net to be reduced by over 30 percent
are you having difficulty understanding?

 

Only about 17.5 percent of that sale went to the house.
The other 15 percent goes to the tax man.

Auction Houses have costs and marketing expenses
and these fees are nothing new.

In the end the seller decided to take the 600K US which
if the market for 4 Cams weakens from here may have been
His best option.

 

But the buyer chose to pay $935k, so does that mean the market is the $600k the man sold the car for or the $935k someone paid for it? I think there could be an argument both ways...
Erik

 

Because of the large transaction costs at play here, I would guess the "true" price is somewhere in between, at least on that given day in Switzerland.

 

Jim:

All I said was "Thats what I came up with also", as it relates to the simple conversion of 1 million CHF equating to circa $935k US.

What part of that simple comment are you having difficulty understanding??

I never mentioned a car, a deal, its cost, the sellers fee, the buyers fee, VAT, taxes, sellers net, buyers gross, or anything else that you want to drone on about in your continuously tiring & redundant attempt to convince everybody that the world has come to an end.

Sellers have other options outside of auctions.

.

 

Jim, Are you now using NET results to justify your math now? Commission fees and expenses have ALWAYS been part of the equation, period. If the price paid was 935k then that's what it sold for. You also know that the buyers pay a commission(up to 17.5%) on TOP of their purchase price, going to the auction house. Both seller and buyer give up something to auction company. When final sales results are given from all auction houses the price quoted will be the final hammer price plus whatever percentage the BUYERS premium was, because, that's what it SOLD for. Regards, Mike

 

Am I understanding this correctly, the 275gtb short nose (6653), sold for about 835K us dollars post auction, and the 275gtb 4 cam sold for 935K us dollars?

Anything special about the short nose other then being a 275gtb?

 

Mike

What you're failing to mention is that in this case unlike
Auctions that take place in the US there is an extra 15
Percent of VAT that has to be taken off the price when
Comparing prices to US auction prices.

Eric

Take the above into account when thinking about this

Joe

You are your own punishment. You're correct that sellers
have other options and the good news is that those who
Read your posts here can deceide for themselves if they
Think your services are the ones they should employ.

The bottom line remains that on this day this seller netted
600K not 720K that Mike's numbers would lead us towards
if 934K number wasn't inflated by VAT.

Some may feel that this auction proves nothing.

Others of us think it does.

I also think this thread enables potential buyers
to sharpen their pencils a bit.

 

The way I look at it the car cost the buyer a check for $934k US to own a 275 gtb/4. Regardless of how that number is come up with that is what ONE person paid to be able to own this car. If the previous statement is wrong please correct me, as that is the way the selling price reads once converted. I am sure his wife and himself would have liked to pay $600k.... So the market is somewhere in between the two numbers NOT at just the amount the seller netted IMO.
Erik
PS +1 on the pencil sharpening, I think this is happening with everything in the current economy.

 

The market's not in between. You have to look at the worst of both perspectives to see the market. If you are an owner looking to sell, then $600k is the current market that you can expect.

If you are a buyer looking to acquire, then you must expect to pay $900+k for that model car.

Such enormous transaction costs make the Market spread difficult to comprehend.

 

Except that if you were to use a more efficient means of transacting, like, say, a broker who routinely works for about 7% of the purchase price (or less in some cases), then the seller might be able to net a bit more, and the buyer pay a bit less, and still get a better deal when all of the dust had settled. That's why in my opinion, other than in cases of ultra rare or one-of-a-kind cars, never to be duplicated in the market, auction is generally the worst option for BOTH buyers and sellers.

 

Jim, I have not failed to realize anything! Auction results are always the final hammer price+buyers premium, as I stated. You are being presumptious in assuming what the seller netted, unless of course you were privy to the deal he made with the auction company. The VAT taxes, commissions etc. have always been a part of the process, this is nothing new. Sellers netted less in the boom times as well, so what. No results from anyting being sold are stated in NET terms. Your focus on that now is disengenuine. Perhaps this sales result was not as bad as you had predicted in your earlier posts, therefore the "NEW" math. Please keep in mind I do agree with you in principle with respect to where we are today, but not in the aproach. I think it is way to soon to tell if we will see wholesale dumping of cars and the price fallout from that. Respectfully, Mike