308 V12 conversion begins | Page 75 | FerrariChat

308 V12 conversion begins

Discussion in '308/328' started by mk e, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1851 mk e, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    "She Blinded Me With Science- (Thomas Dolby) keeps popping through my head when I read this thread.............................................
     
  3. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

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    #1853 Hans, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yeah, before you know it, he's put in one of these....
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  4. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    He already has, he's just not telling anyone about it yet.
     
  5. aw2809

    aw2809 Rookie

    May 31, 2006
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    How else do you think so much gets done in such little time! Mk e from 6 months ahead is coming back in time to help!

    I'm just wondering - Is the to do list getting shorter now, or does it still continue to grow (it's about time for another, what if.... or while I'm at it...)? I'm guessing that it might be the latter now you have the new port torch!

    It goes without saying, but this is absolutely stunning work, and great entertainment!
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1856 mk e, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The 6 months from now me is still up to his eyeballs in ferrari v12 and refuses to help today me :)



    Rushing me just exploded the only cutter I had for the splines.....2 new ones should be here tomorrow.

    The list hasn't really gotten shorter becasue the items were just big overview items that aren't really done yet. It may get longer, I just interviewed with a company that makes....carbon fiber stuff :)
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  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mark you lunatic I just can't get enough of your mad project. I really hope this thing puts down some big time power once your done with it.
     
  8. randyleepublic

    randyleepublic Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2007
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    When you want to know stuff, Wikipedia is a pretty good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_edm
     
  9. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1859 mk e, Dec 22, 2008
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  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Me too.
     
  11. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Mark,

    If it has been discussed already I missed it, but why did you significantly reduce the size of the clutch-shaft on the gear end?

    I also see that you're wearing a wedding ring in the latest pics: do you want to make us believe that your wife is still with you in all this madness???
     
  12. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1862 mk e, Dec 23, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
    I am switching the engine and transmission drop gears. The change will both reduce the torque going to the trans and raise all the gears to ratios better suit the new engine. The down side is I had to either cut out the trans gear hub to engine shaft size or reduce the engine shaft size. I chose to leave the trans gear alone since I had to make a new shaft anyway.

    The diameter reduction is not as bad as it looks. The minor diameter of the trans gear is 1.024” but the minor diameter of the clutch spline is 1.000” so the clutch area should still be the weak link. Also, the diameter works on the trans input shaft with no problems and I’m going to be putting just about the same torque though it that it saw with my supercharged engine….I think it will be ok.


    She is very understanding......as long as I only work on the car when she's not home and never speak of it when she can hear :)
     
  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1863 mk e, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I finally got a little time in the shop today and has able to cut the clutch splines on the new shaft, it fits nicely in the clutch hub. Now I just need to cut a couple notches on the end for locking the gear retaining nut and it's ready for heat treat.

    Friday the guys in the shop finished the outside of the new trans gear hub and made the ring nut that locks the gear on. The gear is a very light press on, nice. I still need to bore out the ID of the hub so the trans nut will fit down inside to finish the hub up. The gear is wating for counter bores on bother sides and the ring nut needs a hole pattern drill so it will accept a spanner so there is some way to tighten it. Hopefully I can finish all this stuff up tomorrow so I can ship it all out to the heat treater Monday.
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  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1864 mk e, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I got the notches cut in the clutch shaft and the trans gear hub ID bored out today. The hub fits gthe trans shaft nicely.

    I tried boring the counter bores on the trans gear but mainly only succeeded in removing material from my boring tooling :(

    I think that was due to the interupted cut and hopefully when I set it up on the rotary table tonight I'll have better luck with a carbide end mill then I did with the boring tool.
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  15. Jon Hansen

    Jon Hansen Formula Junior

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    Mike,
    This project is awe inspiring. I'm glad you are back on the job, and follow it with interest. I was going through withdrawal there wondering if you were ever going to post again! (Ha ha)
    Thanks for including so much detail and the good pictures. I love your approachs to every problem/issue.
    Can't wait for more.
    Jon
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1866 mk e, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Jon.
    Here's a second post for the day to help with the withdrawal. I got the rotary table set up tonight and cut the counterbore into the first side of the gear. The endmill cut without a problem.
    There are some burs around the splines I need to remove before I can do a test fit, but the gear material is too hard to file with a standard file. I know one of the guys at work has a set of diamond files so I'll barrow them tomorrow and see if I can get a picture with the bellhousing and gears in place.
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  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1867 mk e, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Fchat went down last night about the time I was ready to post my nightly update so you're getting yesterday's news today.

    Side 2 of the gear is now counterbored and all deburred. The nut fits in the gear properly, the gear fits on the hub properly, the new shaft appears correct, the hub appears to fit on the trans shaft correctly and the all the gear appear to be in about the right spots. I think it’s looking pretty good and it sure feels like I'm winning the battle this week.

    Tonight I need to put the spanner holes in the nut and make a spacer for the trans shaft. The spacer will combine the features of the stock spacer and stock bearing race to put the gear hub in the correct spot with just one part instead of 2 and since I’m no longer using a bearing in the stock location having the race on the shaft would just look silly/Mickey Mouse. Then off to the heat treaters with the new bits and I can get cutting on the bellhousing to finish that up.
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  18. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    Wow.
    Everything really is looking terrific.
     
  19. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    Ditto, VERY cool
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1870 mk e, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks

    Tonight I popped the spanner holes into the gear retaining nut and made a spanner minus the pins becasue it turned out the pins I had were soft steel and useless. I'll see if I can track down hardened pins tomorrow......everything just takes longer than it should it seems.
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  21. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Drill bits are cheap.
     
  22. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Nov 19, 2003
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    Drill bits may be cheap but if you mean standard HSS (high speed steel) or cheaper drill bits, the round, un-fluted end that fits in the chuck isn't hardened. Try it with a file. Universal joints, new or old, are a good source for hardened bearing needles which make good small drive pins in a pinch.

    Looks great Mark!
     
  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1873 mk e, Dec 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I decided the handle was too wide to be comfy and look stupid besides so I cut it down. The tool now works, and the nut goes on as it should.

    I spoke to a couple heat treat shops today trying to decide exactly what I wanted to do. I'm thinking I'll have the shaft nut and spacer done max hard which will be RC 52-56. That is a little soft for the hub since the rollers of the bearing will be running on it, normally we want 58-63 for that.....but I do have way more bearing than I actually need because I had basically fixed dimensions I hard to work with so it would probably be fine. Or I can nitride it to RC 60, but that drops the core hardness to about RC 33 which means less strength, still probably fine though. Or I can carburize it to get RC60 on the outside and still have a 54-56 core but the core doesn't get tempered properly really so it's a little less tough. Appearently 8640 would have been a better choice for this part but is a little hard to come by. I'm leaning toward carburizing to give me the highest tensile number but that is not a real common treatment on 4340....I've still got a few day to think about it.....honestly I'm sure any of the options will work but I'd like it to be the best it can be.
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  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1874 mk e, Jan 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I made the spacer today and it looks right.

    Next I'm going to back track just a little. I left the pins that align the engine on the trans a long and it seems like I egged the holes a bit lifting the block on and off....kind of stupid. So, I want to back and fit larger pins so everything fits right again.

    Also on the kind od stupid list is the end cover for the trans. Originally it had 1 pin in the trans and 1 in the engine. What I should have done is mounted the v8, mounted the end plate and drilled another pin into the trans since the engine pin location was getting cut off.....but I didn't so now it only has 1 pin and I need to figure out where straight is before I can install a second.

    After that I can start cutting the bellhousing
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  25. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1875 mk e, Jan 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As a complete distraction from what I'm actually working on, here's a couple pics from teh TWM web site. Ferrari v12 set up and there new high mount injector set up....it seems I'm not the only one wanting 2 injectors per cylinder to get optimal injector placement.
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