348 clutch, to resurface or not...

So I was planning on having my dual plate clutch resurfaced...then my mechanic tells me that it has been heated to extreme temps or something and is burned in places so we can't resurface it. Saying I should replace it instead. I'm not knowledgeable enough to interpret this, can someone help me out?

 

Um..........I thought re-surfacing your clutch plates meant replacing the material on the clutch plates.

So, why does it matter that the surfaces have seen extreme temps??

Is he talking about the clutch plates or flywheel mate?

 

Plenty of guys have had the flywheel milled, and the clutches resurfaced. Only a few hundred dollars depending on where you go. Run a search of the archives and you'll see that it has successfully been done in the past.

 

Hi Drew - I bought a new clutch for my 348. My dual clutch plates all looked hot/burned, and I've seen pics of other 348 clutches that looked the same. Seems these clutches get hot. I got a good deal on a new clutch, and decided it was not worth trying to get the old one redone. I did have my flywheel resurfaced. If you do, make sure you have both the clutch surface and the outer bolting surface ground the same amount to keep original clamping force. I think most clutch places will know this.
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rick's pic of the top intermediate plate is very typical. If it is flat and not scored it is serviceable without any needed treatment. Of course it is always best to have a perfect surface with the factory roughness etc.. but I bet you dinner if you reuse this disc you will not be able to tell any difference in performance.

 

He's talking about the clutch plates... I thought the same thing you did which is why I asked the question.

 

I've read them all and thats why I was planning on having it resurfaced. however, after he took the clutch apart he said it was burned, etc. I don't know enough to know the difference but he recommended we don't resurface it and instead just replace everything. It's a 4000$ difference so I was a little hesitant.

 

Thanks for this, possibly the most helpful yet. If it isn't smooth, do I need to buy a new clutch? Almost seems worthwhile to still get it redone for $400 as opposed to spending the $ on the full clutch??

I don't cheap on my cars, but if it is possible to save thousands, then I will.

Thanks for all your help on this

 

Im still lost here man.

He wants you to replace it ALL??

Flywheel, plate....clutch plates! What the **** for?

Flywheel and intermediate plate can be machined. Rick did it and I did it too when I replaced my clutch!

Clutch plates can be re-surfaced. Bolt it all back together and she is done mate.

 

He wants me to replace the clutch plates, nothing else. You think I can still just resurface them and I'll be good?

 

Ok mate, too easy!

Re-surface them both and get the flywheel/intermediate plate skimmed if it needs it or has 'hot spots' on it. Thats what I would do.

Or worst case, dont machine them and just re-surface the clutch plates. Can still get away with it.

 

With no photo's of the parts in question it all comes down to guessing at best.

If the pressure plate is warped then that would be reason to replace the whole unit and surface the flywheel. If you start surfacing the intermidiate plate then you have to correct for the material removed in the shimming or the step on the flywheel..... Send the disc's out for re-line and the tech has a dead car taking up a stall waiting for the sublet work to be completed for how long? Multiple bench setups and re-shims of the stack height....

There are a great many factors in play here and its possible your tech as weighed the labor costs against the parts savings OR he doesnt have access to shims, tools to do it or lack of knowledge to properly set the stack height. If you trust him, his advise might be sound and he has already taken all of these variations into account. Labor adds up quickly when doing these types of "cost saving" attempts.

 

does anyone know where I can get this done? I found one place via an old thread out in ca. Any others?

Thanks

 

I agree with Dave. You also have to realize that the shop needs to move your car out and have a satisfied customer. He will do what he knows will work in his hands. You and he does not want your car sitting on the lift plugging up space for another paying customer while some dolt in Calif. like friction materials in Long Beach slaps on some clutch plates and fails 100% of the time to follow your specs and grind the surfaces to spec.. I think I have done this 3-4 times and they have never been able to do it the first time right. Unfortunately they are local to me so I just know I'm going to see them twice plus the price is right iirc 20 bucks a plate for new organic material. If your shop does not have a 100% reliable subcontractor they you are only in for "pain." There are not that many subs around who not only know what to do or will do them, like understand open and closed plate dimensions and set-up heights etc. If you want your shop to warrant the work do it his way. You will be much happier.

 

Call up your local exotic car dealers and transmission shops and ask them where they sub out clutch rebuilds. When I decided to rebuild my 348 dual disc clutch I called about 12 places and a pattern became clear - one shop in San Diego was doing most of the high-end work for many of the Ferrari independents and for the authorized Lamborghini dealer. You will probably discover the same in your area.

I can understand your mechanic wanting to replace the clutch pack - he has to warranty the work and wants the highest probability of it being done right the first time and to turn your car around in a reasonable amount of time.

 

Drew - just to clarify, I replaced the whole clutch with a new AP Racing clutch (plates and disks). I just resurfaced the flywheel. Daniel has the whole clutch for something over $2k IIRC, but both GT Car Parts and Ferrparts had even better pricing. I understand you'll have to pay labor, but still am struggling with the $4k quote, unless it includes machining/repacking flywheel, and some other work, which he may be doing anyway. Not trying to criticize the mechanic. I would think your net cost for new clutch vs. rebuilt/resurface, etc. clutch would be on the order of $1k. Perhaps your mechanic would let you shop for a clutch yourself and have him install it? Perhaps he marks up parts.
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These 348's look nice and seem almost reasonably priced, but they appear kind of polarizing. People either love them or hate them. I like the looks and price. But, I have heard scarry stories on the service costs.

What the reasonable range one might expect to pay for a complete clutch rebuild? Just a friendly inquiry.

 

If you want scary service costs, try a 355 that has been neglected

As to your question, it runs about $2k for an OEM Ferrari 348 twin clutch pack (plates and discs), about $4k if the flywheel needs to be replaced and the labor will vary depending on who does it and what other service is being done at the same time.

On the other end of the spectrum, a DIY job would run about $500 to have the discs resurfaced and the plates ground, around $50 for seals and $100 for Kluber grease if you chose to service the flywheel.

 

The 348 does not cost any more really than any of the other Ferraris. The problem is that there are more bugs to work out in the 348 so the total costs are higher. But once sorted PROPERLY they are very economical and reliable. One made a very cheap racecar for me. And it cost me pennies to put in timing belts yearly when I raced it. Basically nothing else broke but I did strip out all things that did not make the car go faster.

Look at the difference in technical information on the 348/55 section vs the 456/550/575 board. The 360 was mass produced like crazy and even it does not have the technical braintrust the 348/55 has. That is because just about every owner has had to work out some bugs with their 348/55. I've had a 308gts, mondial cab QV, 348ts and now a 550M. I've had the 550M for about 3 months now and have only put gas in it. Nothing has broken. No warning lights. This is a very new Ferrari experience for me.

 

Speaking of belts, is your lift gonna be open Chubba?

 

I had read somewhere that 6K was a real possibility for a clutch and had hoped maybe that was a big overstatement. Ouch. That will leave me safely in Vette land. Difficult to imagine that much for a clutch, but hey, each to his own. Thanks for your reply.

 

My car had the twin disk clutch replaced in 2002 for $2200 by Tim Stanford (plus a few hours labor).
BT

 

It ain't that bad, 6K is probably the absolute worst-case scenario. Vettes are cool and I'll probably have one later in life, but a Ferrari feels like a real race car. I'm sure a clutch on almost any Corvette is at least $1500 w/o flywheel, maybe more. My friend just did a 2001 vette clutch for $1900.

Engine rebuild (or replacement), on the other hand, is a walk in the park for the Chevy, not so for the F's.

 

so the quote is :
Clutch has been over heated causing blueing of machined surfaces
Friction material worn down to rivits causing it to dig into machined surface

He is also replacing the release flange and release bearing for $600+ in parts each and repacking the flywheel.

He doesn't have his own garage, he rents space as needed which I pay so I don't think he's trying to free up a bay. He's a very knowledgable mechanic but I don't believe he has experience with resurfacing the clutch which is why i asked the question here...

 

Thoughts based on pics?
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