For reference; Here's what it cost (PPO) to rebuild my motor: (Note: I can only guess that sticker-shock must have kept him rebuilding the gearbox. It was the most significant problem when I got the car just 2000 miles later, and it should have been fixed with the rebuild.) Image Unavailable, Please Login
wow. i swear the time thats gone by, is the main reason to get rid of the sodium filled valves on these 70's era cars. its not the miles. at redline at speed that valve failure would have been catastrophic.
At the risk of hijacking this thread..... Its a huge internal debate that I have all the time with myself. My car runs SOOOOO well right now...do I really want to open 'pandora's box' or..... Where is that crystal ball???????? JIM
Jim, I really didn't think it would happen to me. I always made sure the engine oil was up to temp before going over 3500rpm to try to prevent valve damage etc. But maybe it's just what happens with age. If I were you just keep driving it, if a sodium valve lets go it appears the consensus is it dies at idle or startup and as you can see even at cranking speeds the damage can be bad. Your going to have to remove the engine to do both heads anyhow so all this effort may as well include a rebuild. All my son and I were trying to do was a compression test. I had a little hesitation at cruise, pretty hard to notice actually but it annoyed me. I couldn't get a drop in RPM (at idle) when I removed spark on #8. Boy did my son (9 years old) learn some new words when #2 was 0psi and I went pale. Just for reference (in case it had something to do with the sequence we followed) - 1. warmed the engine by reving @ 1500rpm from cold, I didn't want to get the engine hot to make it more comfortable to do the compression test. 2. Pulled the fuse on the fuel pump and BSM ignition system 3. Started the test 4. Dead #2 cyl PSI I think I can get the engine out but then it'll be off for a rebuild. It's a hard call when you ask your wife, "Honey what would you prefer, a new pool or a rebuilt GT4 engine?" George
George, Please click on the link in my post above. The one with the picture titled "THIS DILEMMA". If you can, and since you're going to anyway... I STONGLY urge you to remove both heads before removing the engine.
Also, do a search for TOMOSHEA. He has a GT4 and has a good write up on removing the motor. Good luck on this project! I feel for ya. JIM
Think so. One would expect more general knicking and dings if it happened while running, wouldn't you?
Yep Birdman, Looks like the valve head broke off first, then the stem fell into the pot (there's still the top of the stem in the guide). Piston came up and the stem punched through the crown. The torque of the stater was enough to smash the crap out of the piston. Question, are the copper head gaskets normally fitted to 308's? Cheers George
SOoooooo sorry George... see Aus thread also. If you decide to do the work yourself, machine shop to think of is Bryant Engineering in Bris, and yes, costs are significant...
Hi George, Very sorry to hear about your motor. I went throught this a few years ago with my 308GT4 - I've talked about it in a few different threads and posted pictures of the amount of schrapnel that ended up in the sump as a result. It happended to me at about 3,500rpm and the motor was a total mess as a result. I thought about rebuilding at the time but the damage was very extensive and so instead I opted for replacing the motor with a 328 motor. But then I also got caught up with the "While I Am Here" syndrome and did heaps of other things too like carrier bearings, synchros, removing the k-jet fuel injection that came with the 328 motor and going for full EFI etcetera controlled by a Motec and so on and so on. Many dollars later it still looks bog standard on the outside but it is quite different under the engine cover. I guess I overspent on the unexpected project but I don't regret it now as it is a unique machine that goes like the clappers. As for the pool versus engine question, I've had pools for 25 years and hardly go in them - I'd rather go surfing - and you are on the coast anyway! BTW, if you do end up replacing just the one piston, I do know of 7 to choose from in quite good order! Cheers, Grahame
it's been posted before, but i've heard of sodium valves dropping at pre-delivery and never. it's usually something inbetween,
Hi Peter, OK, here is how we went with the EFI and Motec. First, here is some of the scharpnel from the sump after that sodium-filled exhaust valve let go! Image Unavailable, Please Login
And here are a few photos on the EFI and Motec mods... 1. Fuel rails and injectors straight off a 348. Rear rail had to be cut into 2 sections to accomodate the throttle body. 2. Motec Air temperature sensor fitted. 3. Cam hall sensor fitted on end of front bank exhaust cam and housing machined. 4. Water temperature seonsor adaptor. 5. Machined down and bored out injector holes to take EFI injectors. 6. Machining to allow free injector spray. 7. Looking from inside up to injector pintle. 8. New fule pump and filter. 9. MoTec in boot with loom running through rubber grommet in firewall. 10. Air intake into throttle body mounted on new spacer to plenum. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
And here is how it all looks in the GT4... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sounds a lot like that GT4 on sale in Launceston. Individual injection throttle bodies etc. With all sympathy to George, an unexpected engine rebuild is a real sorting point. Tragedy or adventure comes down to whether the resources are available. Really nice to see one turn out like yours, Grahame. Interesting use of the 348 rails
Hi Modeler, I have not heard about the machine for sale in Launceston - do you have a link? Yes, the 348 rails were perfect because the injectors are set at EXACTLY the same distance apart as on the 328 and also the flow rates of the injectors themselves, being right for the hp that a 348 produces, suited this modified 328 motor perfectly. Cheers, Grahame
approx cost? how much dyno time to set up? must be a rocket. it'd make a fair bit more power than the original. why'd you do it, anyway?
Grahame This guy used individual bodies but I like your way better. Still his is a great motor too. http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/FERRARI/DINO/details.aspx?R=6188498&Make=FERRARI&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&Model=DINO&__N=4294966380%200%204294954255%201216%20834%20285%20257&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&Cr=2&__Nne=20&trecs=5&state_id=0&__sid=11C92052D8DC
they cost a bloody fortune! i'd rather a single throttle body. i know it's not the ultimate for power, but it makes setup SOOOOOOOOOOOo much easier!
I have all the receipts but I have never pulled apart the cost of what I could have got away with and what I actually ended up spending. As I said, I had a bit of "While I Am Here" Syndrome so I did gearbox synchros (4th/5th) and various bearings and oil seals and so on. The exhaust had to be customised but it runs into a Mille Miglia I had on the 308 motor. In the end I guess I spent roughly equal or maybe a bit more than a total rebuild of the 308 motor would have cost. Why did I do it anyway? I launched into the whole project because the moter was totally Kangaroo Edward! I looked at all sorts of options but in the end tossed up between a total, original rebuild or something a little different for similar dollars. Having decided to go for the 328 motor, I sourced this from Rutlands in the US, but when it arrived it did not have the ECU which controls the spark and injection timing. I looked at getting the genuine Ferrari ECU but when I looked at the new price for that old technology and also when I looked at the "in need of TLC" condition of all the K-jet injectors, I thought - time for a rethink here - and went towards the EFI and MoTec combination. In some ways it was a bit llike the spider that ate the fly... The MoTec was set up off the dyno, but then fine-tuned on the dyno - no more than couple of hours. I don't have dyno sheets to hand but will share if I find them. Cheers, Grahame
The Tassie guy has certainly done some good thinks to the motor and elsewhere. Didn't think 355 brakes would fit behind those wheels... Interesting! Hmmm! My next project is brake upgrade.
