Your thoughts on a brokers behavior.

One California spyder was acquired from a widow for a fraction of its value.
The culprit was actually an attorney, completely defrauding her. He was also briefly a publisher and cancelled articles I expected to be paid for even though his editor had formally accepted those articles. His carelessness about this income cancellation was utterly callous.
No further comment.

best regards,

Marc

 

hi Rob, I have heard from some dealer friends that there are vultures that know where some good cars are and read the obits waiting for the opportunity to get in before the widow knows what has happened.

This happened to a poor woman in the UK when I was working there, she had a Lambo sitting in her garage that she wanted to get rid of when her husband died, had no idea what it was worth (Muira SV) other than it was an old car and some broker offered her 1,000 pounds for it before I got there (silly me was going to offer her 20,000 pounds), she didn't know the broker and thought he was doing her a favour as the tyres were flat and it was all very dusty

some people are just vermin

 

I would say this is quite normal. It is how people make money on old cars - buy low, sell high. We should all be so lucky to receive 'fair market value' for everything we sell, we should all be so knowledgable as to understand, beforehand, what that 'fair market value' actually is. The only real thing that matters, in my own mind, is this - are the buyers and sellers happy with the outcome? If so, then the amounts exchanged do not matter and 'We The People' have no right to comment regarding the financial arrangements made between private parties. People mistake trash for treasure and treasure for trash all the time - if they didn't, there would be no point in ever going to an auction, a flea market, an estate sale, or eBay for that matter ever again.....

 

Good post. I have seen just as many "people" (not necessarily brokers) take advantage of those situations. It is one thing to lie about the car to bring the value down, it is another thing to just make a lowball offer because of extenuating circumstances. If the seller accepts....the seller accepts.

There are plenty of people being taken advantage of in all markets right now because of financial distress sales....but they still accept the offer and sell the car/house/whatever.

I am not trying to defend anyone, and I have never made a score on a car because of the deceased, but I have had the opposite happen....where widows tried to capitalize on the "I have no idea what it is I'm sellling it cheap I need your help" to get WAY too MUCH money for their classic cars....it goes both ways.

While we're on the topic....what would be the difference in ethics in "stealing" a car from some widow by making an offer, and "stealing" a classic car from a poorly-attended estate sale? I know plenty of people who have done the latter.....and no questions were raised as to whether they should have paid more just because the car was worth more.......

 

It's sad but it happens all the time. You need to know what you're selling and have an idea what it's worth.

 

A widow named Mrs. Smith is trying to sell her late husband's collector car. Joe Shysterbroker knows that it is worth $50,000. He swoops in and offers Mrs. Smith $10,000 and she accepts the offer. Joe is laughing all the way to the bank as he hauls the car away on a trailer thinking that he ripped off the widow Smith. The widow Smith is laughing at Joe as he drives off because she knows that the late Mr. Smith only paid $500 for the car many years ago.

WHO is taking advantage of WHO?????

 

That's a true story for some. I had a customer that had a dozen high end cars who suddenly died and his wife walked in because we still had one of his cars and told me the bad news. As it turns out by the time we were finished with her late husbands car {maybe a week later} she had offers on her husbands cars from her neighbors. One man offered $150,000 in cash "for the troubled widow" for 6 of the exotic/ high end cars. As I drove the 6 series into her garage, I knew straight off that the two "cheapest cars" in there were worth more than the measly offer he got, let alone 6 of the cars.

 

I think the lesson is that we should keep our wives or kids in the loop re what the cars are worth and what they should do if we die. Hopefully each of us has a friend who would step in and prevent our wives or children from getting ripped off.

I would also think that the amount we have the cars insured for would give our survivors a clue re roughly how much they should expect.

Once I was looking for a Jag E-type and was too late to buy a particular one. The guy had advertised it for like 60% of its market value and when I called him he told me he had sold it to a dealer who had had the gall to talk him down a further 10%. I saw it the next day on a lot in Santa Monica for sale for twice what the dealer had paid for it.

It really is true that you should never sell ANYTHING without making some effort to see how much it's worth.

 

Coincidentally, I saw this news report THIS evening (the report will begin after a 30 sec. commercial), but it looks like the family did some reasearch and will get a proper amount for this car:

http://canwest.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/canwest-globalnational-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=globalnationallarge&maven_referralPlaylistId=1aec0bb8a8447569773d9501609a3cd220ee1914&maven_referralObject=3398750

 

This really isn't the brokers fault it is the stupidity of the deceased, I mean come on your a guy who owns something of value and your spouse is clueless!! I find this somewhat unbelievable. Even if he didn't want her to know the value of the article when he was alive why not have some sort of disclosure in the will. My wife knows who to contact if I die prematurely on the stuff I own that she doesn't personally care about. If the deceased doesn't care enough about his family I guess to bad.

 

who made $40k and who made $9500 ?

it's like someone offering a widow $50K for a Dino when the widow knows her husband bought it new for $15k ... looks good for the widow until it's on sold without a finger being laid on it for $150k ... nice $100k profit for 2 phonecalls


the lowlifes reading this know it's true, it's what they do all day long ... vultures

 

Wills. Write 'em.

Make your executor someone who either knows the value of your properties, or someone who can use the Internet to find out. (And, of course, someone honest by nature or circumstance. Such as a computer savvy relative who'll have to face the rest of the family afterwards.)

Don't just make the little woman the executor.
She's likely to have other things on her mind just after you've passed away.
(Like whether your clothes will fit the tennis pro. )

 

What seems odd to me is that we here the shocking stories but no names.
If they are indeed bastards tell the world.
Predators will continue to prey until outed.

 

I knew a gentleman who had a very rare, old Ferrari. He was not a wealthy man. He did not live in a mansion with a fancy security system, a huge garage built like Fort Knox, nor did he live in a gated community where the riff-raff were kept outside by a guard. He just liked cars, and had bought a machine that, at the time of purchase, was not worth anything (there was such a time with old Ferraris). The world is full of desperate, dangerous people who would kill for the kind of cash this car was worth. People today kill for a pair of sneakers. Most of the 'old car' guys I know also are aware of this situation, and prefer a tactic called DISCRETION. They don't tell nobody NOTHING.

This gentleman had pursued a restoration of the vehicle, but could not afford the prices being commanded to do this vehicle justice. However, even selling the car was problematic - telling people he had such a machine, and the fair-market-value asking price, would have brought wolves to his doorstep. Literally knocks at the front door and telephone calls at all hours - or much, much worse. He was an elderly gentleman who SERIOUSLY did not want to deal with such nonsense, and was legitimately afraid of the attention that would come his way if anyone knew his secret. I practially had to sign a nondisclosure agreement just to see the machine - it was kept in a run-of-the-mill storage facility behind a door padlocked with a $5.00 lock you'd buy at Sears. There are lots of cars out there being stored this way, by owners who either don't want to deal with the situation and thus keep their possessions a secret, or don't know what they have to begin with - and they don't want to know. Sometimes, not knowing is less problematic than knowing.

Brokers do provide a valuable service to guys in this situation - they're the 'front man' for all of the information, contacts, arrangments, appraisals, hassle, wasted time, etc. and keep nefarious people from trying to jimmy-open your garage door at 3:00 AM to see what's hiding under the car cover in the back.

 

There is a hilarious disconnect between this thread (where the brokers are bandits, taking advantage of uninformed owners) and the "barn find" thread (where there's always the "one that got away" stories).

 

Sounds like the local mechanic may have been in on it too. He may have softened her up with a low number so when the broker called out of the blue it was an easy sale. This lady probably trusted the mechanic rather than calling around to determine value. I'm sure there'd be a law suit there that could unravel that deal. There aren't too many judges that wouldn't side with a widow who was taken advantage of.

 

The idea has been floating around the Amateur Radio Operater community for a while now (with regard to vintage radio equipment), and it's a VERY simple simply have a letter address to the executor of the estate (or your spouse as the case may be) outlining a rough estimate of the current market value. Update this every two years or so, and include a list of resources for each major item where one can find more up to date information/consultation.

simple.

Then the broker can still make a profit, and the spouse/significant other gets at least a half decent price rather then $1000 for a $10m 250 GTO.....

 

Yet people have no problem walking into Wallymart and paying $10 for an item that was made in China by slave labor conditions for 50 cents. How come nobody is hanging Wallymart in effigy in the town square? OH YEAH, now I know why,.....it's called "business" and it's OK to gouge for a giant profit if you're in "business",....... but if you're the first one to the widow Smith's door with a big wad of cash then you're a vulture???

Wallymart big profit maker because of slave labor conditions = fine upstanding business
Lone wolf car buyer who hustles to the widow's door with a wad of cash = low life vulture?????????????????????????

 

As a fine art appraiser who specialzes in estates I see this happen every day in the art and classic car market. The amount unknowing widows are defrauded is staggering. I did one collection of British racing cars and was able to track down 3 cars that were stolen from the estate by various dealers. The widow had no idea how many cars her hubby had or where they were and the theft was over $1,500,000.

This is the way dealers have traditionally made money. For a long time Lawyers made the bulk of their money on widows and orphans.