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Tire Pressure Monitoring System

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by tazandjan, Dec 12, 2008.

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  1. JamesS

    JamesS Rookie

    Oct 4, 2008
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    #26 JamesS, Jan 16, 2009
    Taz, you can the inflate tyres to 35psi, carry out a calibration and then the system will use 35psi as the reference pressure I believe. It will then calculate pressure warning limits as deltas relative to this pressure.

    I am guessing we are talking about the same thing with regard to unplugging the ECU / pulling it.

    You mention you have had some problems conducting a calibration, what procedure are you using for this?
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    #27 fatbillybob, Jan 16, 2009
    This is a great system if it works this way. With vettes you could not do this and if the system did not like your tire pressure it would cut your power into a limp home mode. Now that is big brother talking!
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #28 tazandjan, Jan 16, 2009
    James- No problem with calibrations, just sometimes (most times) they do not work. Set tire pressures perfectly using Longacre digital gauge. Turn ignition key to on, wait for system ok indication, push calibration button for five seconds until Cal symbol illuminates, start car, drive and wait. When it works (once or twice) service (TPMS) light never illuminates. Usually, however, after about five minutes of driving, the service (TPMS) light illuminates, even though it worked the day before and gave good tire pressure readings. Driving me crazy. Once that service light is illuminated, you cannot check pressures to find out if anything is wrong.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  4. FerrariChallenged

    FerrariChallenged Karting

    Jan 14, 2009
    67
    #29 FerrariChallenged, Jan 17, 2009
    One way to figure out if the problem is with the ECU or the sensors is to check the residual battery life of the sensors with the SD2. I know this most likely means you will have to visit a dealer, but it will probably save you money in the long run. In the Parameter section, look for the "MESI" value for the sensors. If it is less than 50, you will need new sensors. Every car that I have come across with a value of less than 50 MESI, replacing the sensors has solved the repeated TPMS error light. If you live in an area with cold weather, I also recommend setting the tire pressures about 3-4 PSI higher than you would in the summer before you calibrate the system. This also seems to help, especially on the earlier systems like on the 575. Even though the system monitors both pressure and temperature, it is pretty fickle. Hope this helps.
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #30 tazandjan, Jan 17, 2009
    Challenged- Thanks. If there was an SD2/3 anywhere near here, I would try that. Unfortunately nearest one is in northern Colorado. I will try the three pounds higher trick. I always wear out the shoulders before the centers of tires anyway from going around corners too fast. Maybe that will even out wear.

    Daniel may be right and I just have to bite the bullet and get the updated sensors.

    Are the batteries in the sensors replaceable? Answered my own question looking in the WSM. No, they are not. The WSM tells the parts guys to use up old units first since the batteries have a limited shelf life.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #31 fatbillybob, Jan 17, 2009
    Taz,

    Do a vette search on corvette forum. They have guys who replace the GM sealed units and put new batteries in them for about 40 bucks each IIRC. I am sure they can be cut open.
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #32 tazandjan, Jan 17, 2009
    FBB- Worth a try. $330 each is a bit much. Will try the higher pressures and see if that works when I get the car back.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  8. bugattitech

    bugattitech Rookie

    Jan 14, 2009
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    #33 bugattitech, Jan 17, 2009
    I have had many experiences with the 575 tpms. None of them fun or short. You just cant tell someone to disable the system when the car is still under warranty. So fixing them was my only option. Most of the time I ended up replacing all 4 tpms sensors. Make sure you keep the stickers with the identfier numbers on them. TPMS sensors are battery powered devices so they all have a shelf life. 48 months is what they are normally rated at. As part of the SD2 system they ask what tires are on the vehicle Michelin or Pirelli to have the reference pressures correct. My best advise to anyone with this issue is just turn the POS system off. You will be a lot happier and maybe I wont have to ever fix one of these crappy systems again.
     
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #34 tazandjan, Jan 17, 2009
    Ryan- Would be nice, but there is no disconnect button to push unless you have an SD2/3 and there is not one anywhere near here. My car is five plus years old so probably reaching the end of life for the sensor batteries.

    Going to put on Novitec wheels and larger tires soon. Probably best to put on new, upgraded sensors then and the new ones are supposed to last longer. I hope. I actually like tire pressure systems, especially since I have no spare tire on my car.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #35 tazandjan, Jan 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Did some more research on the TPMS sensors and discovered the Beru RDE 001 sensor fitted to the Ferraris is common to some models of Audis, Mercedes, and Porsche. Am now searching for a reasonable price on the sensors. Found service kits (valve guts) for $2.25/valve, but still have not gotten a quote on the sensors. Just a matter of using your existing valve stem, this sensor and replacing the valve guts.

    Technical data I found says the Beru units hibernate and are inactive until they see 25 psi. At that point they wake up, so shelf life is not a concern. This conflicts with the WSM, but that is not exactly new.

    Beru Wheel Sensor RDE 001
    Art. Nr. 1330092


    packing unit:1


    technical data


    directives

    BERU No.: 0 532 207 001


    suitable for

    AUDI: A6 Allroad (4BH), from 04/00; RS6/ RS6 plus, from 04/00; A8/ S8 (4D, D2), 09/99 - 09/02; A8/ S8 (4E, D3), from 10/02
    Ferrari: 550 Maranello Evo, from 03/02; 575 M Maranello, from 03/02; 612 Scaglietti, from 03/04; F 430/ F 430 Spider, from 09/05
    Mercedes: S-Class (W220), 07/99 - 09/05; CL (C215), 07/99 - 09/05; CLS (C219), 10/04 - 05/05; SL (R230), 10/01 - 05/05; E-Class (W/ S210), 07/99 - 03/
    Porsche: Carrera GT, from 09/03; Boxter (987), from 02/05; 911 (997), from 02/05
    Volkswagen: Phaeton, from 06/02

    Art. Nr. Product name BERU No. packing unit
    5709010 Wheel sensor RDE 001 0 532 207 001 1


    Taz
    Terry Phillips
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  11. Cariad

    Cariad Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2006
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    #36 Cariad, Jan 18, 2009
    Looking forward to your yellow tach photos. Most impressed with yor research on the Bera units. Tomorrow is "D" Day when my leather instrument pod goes back on and the connections are made. Let's see what fireworks light up the dash ! I have an English Ferrari Master mechanic now working at my local Porsche dealer doing the dismemberment. Keep you posted when it fires up. By the way they have a neat nitrogen air replacement facility which I took advantage of !
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #37 tazandjan, Jan 18, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
    Gary- Now have a good image of the 575 SA tachometer overlays in red and yellow with matching fonts. We shall see.

    I found four Beru RDE 001 sensors for $399. A bit better than $330 per sensor. Will have to see if I can get Daniel to carry those. More profit for Ricambi and a better deal for us. Everybody wins.

    Nitrogen is the way to go on tires if you can make it work conveniently. No water vapor and therefor less effect from temperature variations.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  13. Cariad

    Cariad Formula Junior

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    #38 Cariad, Jan 18, 2009
    I examined the tachometer closely through the clear plastic when it was removed and in my hands. It appears that the red rev limiter zone is itself an overlay as if there was a multiple use for the tach with different rpm max indicators. As this red overlay is raised it would probably have to be removed if your yellow overlay was going to be perfectly flat. It took my Ferrari trained tech nearly 3 hrs to remove the dashboard pod and probably the same to put it back. Not for the faint of heart. Tell you tomorrow !
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #39 tazandjan, Jan 18, 2009
    Gary- My guys were having no fun removing the instruments the last time I talked to them on Friday afternoon, but were going to finish it that day. Next time will go quicker, they said, since I have to do it twice.

    I like $399 for four sensors including valves much better than $162-319 each. However, the latest Beru RDE 001 sensors (orange) from Ricambi are only $146.12 each, so the price is looking better, at $548 a set. That is actually looking pretty good and the latest sensor batteries have a seven year life, I believe.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  15. Cariad

    Cariad Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2006
    445
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    #40 Cariad, Jan 19, 2009
    Terry,
    575 back in my garage, removal and reinstall of instrument panel took 6 hrs knowledgable labor. No problems with any displays and mysteriously hesitancy on cold start has disappeared. I may pass on $800 to remove again and fit yellow overlay but jury still out until I see your results. At the launch party for Ferrari of Tampa Bay there were 3 new untitled cars available at list (or less?) 2008 612 with the new roof in Grigio Alloy at about $275K, a Red 599 with beige interior, lots of goodies for $346K and a F430. Probably more in the back or in transit. Times have changed !!
    Gary
     
  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #41 tazandjan, Jan 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ordered four RDE 001 sensors in the latest orange color (long life batteries) today for $399 including valves from DubZDirect at (877)438-3827. May regret not ordering them from Ricambi since I know they are 100% reliable and these guys are unknown to me.

    Beru's site has mounting information for their sensors, as does the 575M WSM. Most late model Ferraris use the same TPMS sensor. Here is the installation info from Beru.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
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  17. FerrariChallenged

    FerrariChallenged Karting

    Jan 14, 2009
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    #42 FerrariChallenged, Jan 20, 2009
    I have seen problems with a 575 when trying to use the Orange sensors because the frequency of the orange sensors is different than the sensors being replaced. Make sure the frequency on your old senors matches the number on the new sensors. You should see a number like "315 Mhz" or "433 Mhz" written on the sensor.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #43 tazandjan, Jan 20, 2009
    Thanks- All the RDE 001 sensors are 433 Mhz, orange and dark gray. Ricambi's latest part number (224549) for TPMS sensors if for an orange sensor, replacing the dark gray first generation sensors used on most Ferrari TPMS systems. Light gray sensors are 315 Mhz for first generation sensors, according to Beru. Sounds like they may be all going to orange to identify second generation sensors based on what you said, so you are right about checking the frequency on the sensor body. As long as you get the correct RDE number, it should be OK. Makes you wonder why they did not go to red or some color other than orange for second generation 315 Mhz sensors to prevent any confusion.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  19. JamesS

    JamesS Rookie

    Oct 4, 2008
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    #44 JamesS, Jan 22, 2009
    The 433MHz Gen1.5 sensors can be identified as they are orange, whilst the 315MHz Gen1.5 sensors are brown. These can act as a replacement for the Gen1 sensors originally fitted to the 575.

    The Gen2 sensors are what have been fitted to the F430 USA since Sept 2007.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #45 tazandjan, Jan 22, 2009
    James- Thanks. Brown makes sense for 315 Mhz. What is the RDE number on the Gen 2 sensors and are they compatible with the earlier system? Too late for me since I have already ordered four orange sensors, but might help someone else.

    Once I install my new sensors and pressurize the tires, all I need to do is calibrate them with the tire pressure calibration button, correct?

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  21. JamesS

    JamesS Rookie

    Oct 4, 2008
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    #46 JamesS, Jan 22, 2009
    Can't remember the RDE number at the moment, but the Gen2 sensors are not compatible with the earlier system.

    Correct. Press and hold button until cal starts, then drive continuously for something like 10-15 mins and it should calibrate.
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #47 tazandjan, Jan 22, 2009
    James- Thanks. Glad I do not need an SD2/3 since the system is already set up correctly for Pirelli tires.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #48 tazandjan, Jan 22, 2009
    I just had a thought on the SD2. Is the TPMS battery life read-out using the SD2 based on some arcane algorithm or is it measured based on signal strength at the antenna? I hope the latter.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  24. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    Jan 6, 2004
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    #49 Diablo, Jan 22, 2009
    If you get it to work without the SD2 let me know.

    The ECU I always thought, has the four sensors listed already and is not intuitive. It's not set up like a BMW system.
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #50 tazandjan, Jan 22, 2009
    Diablo- Should not take long. Keeping my fingers crossed. Sometimes I feel like I have my feet crossed to save bullets. Like on the yellow tach face for my 575M.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
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