Mondial t's under $30K

Hello,

I know the market is soft and Mondials seem to have always been the red-headed stepchild in the Maranello steed farm. That being said, there are several nice looking late Mondials under $30K.

Is this the bottom, or is there less to come?

Joe

 

Really good ones won't go at or below $30K. Either the seller is desperate in this no buyer market, higher miles, or the car needs a full major immediately, or all three.

A t that you pick up for $30 will be a $40K t in no time.

Check Ferrari Ads and Ferrari Market letter......I noted 6 or 7 listings, all upper 30's, low to mid 40's or even higher (especially for cabriolets) . Even in this market, you get what you pay for. Do your homework, and don't let the price euphoria skew a bad deal. You'll be glad you bought the best example you can find, even if you paid a fair price and didn't get the bargain of a lifetime, in the long run.

I can share the latest FML via pdf if you PM me your email. Might come in handy.

 

I imagine we are nearing the bottom of the mondial market, not necessarily the Ferrari market, but definitely the Mondial market.

If you have a 348, you have to worry about falling 355 prices....if you have a 355 you have to worry about 360 prices, and so on. People who want a mondial are looking for a practical, 4 seat, Ferrari that won't break the bank. They are also looking for a mid engine car. Mondials really have no competition. Also, the mondial's "vices" are a real plus in an economic downturn which forces people to make more practical decisions. Having four seats and relatively cheap maintenance bills is a real plus when enthusiasts are faced with having a toy car capable of doing practical chores when necessary and will also not break the bank. Maybe its due to all of these factors that I have also noticed that the mondial is enjoying a bit of a rebirth recently. Finally, the Mondial ranks are really thinning out and it is getting harder and harder to find a real nice one--took me almost a year. People who pick up a real nice "T" for under 30K are going to be very pleased with their decision ten years down the road if this economy clears up.

If it means anything, my Mondial isn't even for sale and I have had a few unsolicited offers in the last few months, all of which were well over 35K. Of course, short of a family emergency, I wouldn't sell mine for anything short of truly stupid money. My Mondial is the greatest material thing I have had and I can't imagine any other car making me happier. Buy one and see what i mean

 

Joe, I think your analysis is spot on.

As said in another thread, there were no Mondials at Cavallino this year was b/c the owners were out driving them!

Cheers

 

I've seen nice ones (Mondial T) under $30K. They are nice . . . BUT need the 30K major belt service either immediately or in the very short term. Otherwise nice cars. IMO, in this current environment, it is very difficult to get a real, actual buyer to cough up more than $30K for an early T (89/90 or so) that has any miles on it and needs a major service. You'd need to find someone who doesn't know how much that costs, IMO, and that's hard to do these days. There's a lot of people asking more, but then again there's a lot of sellers sitting on their cars for a long, long time, and they aren't going anywhere.

I'm looking right now, for either a Mondi T, or a pre-76 GT4. I want the car now, and am willing to pay current market, even though I think they ALL are going to take another fairly major leg down again when the stock market hits 7,000. I know they are going to take another hit, this economic disaster is only just beginning and has a direct effect on cars like this, but I'm still willing to buy (if I find one and buy it, I have a couple of current cars I'll sell, so it will be kind of a wash to me).

 

I agree with that. We are currently in a major recession which will continue, IMO, through at least 2010, best case scenario (worse case is a complete economic meltdown). Prices for used cars are not going up in the near future, in fact we are having fairly major price deflation on just about everything. That is going to continue for some time for sure. How long is subject to debate, a year is certain, 3-4 years certainly possible.

However, with a trillion dollar deficit and a trillion more being printed up and distributed soon, eventually we will have massive devaluation of the currency and massive inflation. That is simply unavoidable, you can't flood the market with dollars (or anything else, for that matter) and expect them to retain value. In the 10-15 year long term, any well preserved Ferrari will be a decent hedge against inflation.

 

Plus, along the lines of what one poster wrote, if you buy a t, you are the owner of the newest model Ferrari mid-engined 2+2. There is nothing else in front of you to devalue your car. Except for maybe the California as the newest V8 2+2, but it will be a long time before the price on those effects Mondial t prices.

Aw, screw all that, they are truly great cars! Really, what else matters?

 

IMO, FML does not represent accurate prices for this market, Ferrari or not , its only worth what someone is willing to pay, with that said advertised price is not necessarily the sold price. No one appreciates this car which is very SAD...I imagine that the image of the Mondial is it biggest enemy...

No show at Cavallino and low turn out at most other events

my .02

 

Exactly!

 

I really think that is changing. When I got my car I expected that only I had an eye for it, and that other people would just not get it. Much to my sincere surprise, I have gotten an extraordinarily positive response to my car when I have taken her to events. I have also been stopped by people on the road, at gas stations, etc and asked the standard 20 questions. I hear more and more of my friends reconsidering the Mondial as their next or first exotic. When I was at the Radnor Hunt Concours, my car and another Mondial were in a sea of much more expensive Ferraris, but our cars captured a surprisingly large segment of the parking lot crowd (at least at the time I was out there). Finally, I know at least one Mondial that recently received a surprisingly high asking price.

I can't help but feel that the Mondial is going to have a rebirth in the same way the 365 did some years back. To the Ferrari kids growing up, Ferrari is not synonymous with 12 cylinders, like it was to the previous generation. Get past that hurtle, and it can stand on its own merits as a classic at some point MANY years down the road.

The thing that really hurts the Mondial, and the GT4 to some extent I imagine, is that it looks absolutely dreadful in pictures. If someone figures out a way to capture the lines accurately you are going to see a real sales boom . Heck, I even bought a vintage Ferrari brochure from 1986 and the Mondial looks terrible in that!!!
With the exception of the GT4, I don't there is another Ferrari which was been hurt more by the advent of photography...

 

At a NY FCA show a few years back i commented when 2 F40's arrived at the same time that my lone Mondial at the event was rarer.....well at least i got a laugh!

 

+1 to all responders above.

Mondial t prices. You guys know the drill. Prices are all over the map, dependent on miles, condition, years since major, and seller "motivation". That said, I pretty much agree with Joe Zaff (Mondial market is near the bottom), OC (many cars at the lower price point are often over due for a major service right out of the box) and Dersono (FML is an asking price index only).

There are many good cars out there right now -- at any price point which you can afford, all dependent on the above. FML data is most interesting for an "asking price" trend perspective which buyers and sellers can use to set a fair price point, and feel good about the "deal" they agreed on.

Based on the data available (yes, it is asking prices, but still relevant for trending), one could estimate that Mondial t prices have done the following:

1) I've never understood this due the relative rarity of the t coupe, but prices have always been 10-13K less in all the literature versus a t cab.
(this doesn't purely hold if the buyer is specifically seeking a Coupe experience).

2) Mondial t cab down about 10%+ to $41K asking. Coupe prices have held at about 32K asking, narrowing the price gap to about $9K per FML index.

Here is an simplistic approach to valuation that fits right into what folks have been saying. Do the math.

Price for a very good Mondial t from a year ago (what you know they were selling for) $xxxxxx
Deduct: 10-15% for the market decline
Deduct: for high miles (> 50K perception, not true reality), couple $K down?
Add: for Low miles (< 25K perception, not true reality), couple $K up?

Major service on a t assumed at $7000:
0-12 mos since major Deduct Zero $$
13-24 month since major Deduct 1/3 or - $2300
24- 36 months since major Deduct 2/3 or -$4600
36 mos + (over due) Deduct full or -$7000

So using my simple logic above, it would be easy to see how a Mondial t cab, which might have listed for $45-$47K in 2007/8 timeframe would remain in the mid to upper $30's dependent on service history and mileage. BUT, could get to a fair market price in the low 30's if it was in need of a full major.

Take a more "average"/higher mile car which might have listed in the upper 30's in 2007/8, could get to a market price at or below $30K given some rough assumptions above. That said, I still think that this "under $30K" threshold is for "good" average to above average cars in need of a major service (agreeing with OC and JoeZaff). I think the floor is pretty much at hand on the Mondial.

Just my 2 cents after alot of thought to provide a non-emotional, balanced view for both buyer and seller in this market.

 

Prices are at floor. (At least until the total meltdown we are all aware may be in the offing. ) The funny thing is that a Mondial t for $30k is about half again the car of any of it's
"lesser" 3X8 brethren. But you don't see the 3X8s selling for $20K, so go figure. It's even more user-friendly and better built than the 348 that regularly sells for sub. more. (Don't tell the 348 brotherhood I said that. Shhsh!) All I can say is that I love my t! So glad I got it instead of the GT4 I was considering.

 

Randy, I have owned both...and it is 100% personal preference I've found.

GT4: vintage looks, carbs, raw, "go-kart"

Mondial t: modern (328 vintage with 348 guts), longer wheelbase, modern technology: FI, steering, brakes, adjustable suspension, interior room and conveniences AND available in a cabriolet.

For me personally, as much as I loved the GT4, I was pleased to move up to the t cab for all of the above reasons. It just suited me better.

 

I agree, and I am looking forward to discuss again about Mondial value in 10 years. People buying today will be very happy in the future ... Not to forget that this car was produced under the Enzo era ... A future classic for sure.

Absolutely, and don't we know how better this car looks in reality? But I still believe the Mondial needs some little mods.


Some very nice pictures of very nice Mondial:
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This one needs to be rescued but they still want too much ($22,900).
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For 22.9 What does that car need?

It seems like a steal!

 

It starts up, goes down the road and stops. That's it

It has a sordid past and should have a vanity plate labeled "RUSTY".

There's a thread or two, and I PPIed it hoping for a miracle

 

Wade,
Sorry to hear it. I know you are partial to the coupes, but did you take a look at that black Mondial cab on Ferrari ads. The guy dropped the price to below 30K and he seems really ready to sell. Just curious

 

Pictures of my very pretty 1993 t Cab. I think the 355 wheels, especially the 18x10.5 rears, with 25mm spacers, make the Mondial look much more like the sportier Ferraris. The metallic gunmetal gray and dark red leaahter is a stunning color combination.

This car is great to drive, sounds great with Larini exhaust and Hyperflow cats.

After buying my 1998 355 GTS F1 I've had the Mondial for sale on consignment at the local F dealer, but few offers, truly low-balls that did come in. Perhaps the dealer didn't stress that all services were up to date.

It's still available, but I'm not going to give it away.
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Very sharp. I'm usually not a fan of red interiors but that does look good. Wish I was "ready"; I'd make you a low-ball offer!

 

I work with several economists on a daily basis, and one them commented to me today that we're all just lucky to have jobs right now. They believe the stimulus package underway in Washington is the right move, but 2009 looks bleak even in their best case.

I don't know how that translates to old used Ferrari values, but be glad you don't have money tied up in a 612 or 599 right now. You would be losing about "one Mondial" a month.

As OC said, deflation seems to be the rule right now as a lot of "paper wealth" (real estate and related securities) gets wiped out and the economy contracts.

 

Your car looks great Stan! I gotta tell you though, those 18" wheels would make it largely useless here in Northern California home of "the Nation's Worst Roads". My Audi had 17s, I took it back to the stock 15s and had a huge improvement. I would love to get some nice wheels for my Mondial, a little bit wider, but no way am I going larger than the 16s.

 

very nice car - pefect colour combo. would make a great pair with my red/black 348 Spider. i always wanted a 456 as a family Ferrari, but a mondial grows on me !
i like the 355 wheels on your car. generally i prefer original wheels on a ferrari, but the mondial looks much better with the larger wheels.
btw - your location is "vienna " ? funny, as i am living near the "real" vienna in austria.

 

roads there cant be any worse than NYC...and I have 18s on my A4...the key is to run a 40 or 45 profile