250 PF Numbers Question

Hey guys, its been a while but I wish you a belated happy new year!

I've been tooling around with my 330 in Nassau lately and was thinking with prices as they are that it might be a good time to make an addition to the burgeoning 'Scuderia Caraibi' (caribbean in italian).

So I came across this 250 PF (ostensibly 1107) on on hand at Symbolic (http://www.symbolicmotors.com/car-675/1958-ferrari-250gt-pinin-farina-series-one-coupe.html)

But looking through the pictures I noticed different stampings on different parts of the engine! I did a quick search but was curious if anyone had any first hand information. I'm not particularly looking for Classiche certification as its probably going to get a rust treatment and be a well-cared-for driver... But knowing some more would be cool.

Best,
Max
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Also it looks from the photo like it might not have drum brakes like it should. Have you asked?

 

Hi Guys,

Once again.... [email protected] .... mobile phone is 619 840 7811 I am the least hardest person in the world to contact ever!

This PF Coupe has a well documented history from moment one. Ferrari and PF's records differ or were likely incorrectly recorded. One states the car was originally black the other gray. It was ordered and sold new by Chinetti. The car's entire history and chain of ownership are fully documented to our current possession.

I posted for the world to see detailed photos of every number, detail and aspect of this car. Nothing has been hidden as the car is a real jem and we were proud to be able to offer it for public sale.

According to Ferrari, it retains its original engine (Matching numero interno) to the Ferrari assembly records. Same for gearbox and rear axle. It also has the ultra-rare and very cool finned drum brakes that are set inboard of the wheels for cooling. These are the same brakes on the same year TDF and are extremely efficient to say the least. A large portion of these cars have been bought over the years simply to cannibalize the brakes, suspension, axle etc... to repair original 250TR and 250TDFs. One esteemed member of this board has considered the same thing for this car. Simply to buy and set the car aside as it is worth its parts at the price it is being sold at.

The original engine was stamped correctly at the front "1107/GT" the same for the rear boss area under the right-rear distributor. The macro image photos clearly show the numero interno and they also show the original engine number over stamped by the "1117/GT" number. (Look closely at the hatching and photos.) A little bit of FBI gun acid etching and blue penetrant die shows the original numbers clearly underneath. The stamps are also all Ferraris. The best guess and this has happened before is that during block decking the milling of the head affected the stamped engine number. When finished it was incorrectly re-stamped with "1117/GT" over the original "1107/GT."

All are welcome and encouraged to investigate to their complete satisfaction without restriction of any kind.

It does come with the original bumpers which are perfect but simply not fitted to give the car that "boy racer" look. It has been fully restored and prepared for tours and rallys and is eligible for some of the best events world-wide.

By the way... The car is just as much fun to push around on the street as a TDF but at a fraction of the cost!

Cheers,

Bill Noon

 

Hey Max

The good news here is that everything is disclosed. Over the years there have been many issues with chassis numbers and stampings and the key is to find out all you can. There are Ferrari's that have the same chassis numbers. There are Ferrari's who's chassis numbers have been changed for various reasons. There are chassis that have been re stamped and there are engines that have been re stamped. Things are what they are. Some care what "Classiche" thinks other's don't. The key is after reading and studying everything is this a car for you and if so what is it worth to you? I don't know this car but I know Bill.

Even thought I've disagreed with him occasionally I absolutely think he has great passion and always fully practises full disclosure which is IMO what really matters.

Perfection at best is 80%.

Cheers!

 

Who did this? I am quite sure gun acid does NOT work on grainy aluminum alloy and penetrant does nothing unless there is a crack... What gives?

FWIW, 1117GT exists and is missing it's original motor.

Best wishes, Kare

 

The FBI Acid method is used by law enforcement all over the world. It penetrates hardened steel and reveals much and is often used in court when the serial numbers on guns are filed away. Using it on alloy and magnesium is even easier. This is how the engine number on a very well known Ferrari 340MM engine was revealed after being criminally altered several years ago.

Send me your email address and I will email you the high res macro photos I sent to Ferrari.

I am happy to send them to all who enquire. Once again. No restrictions, inspect, evaluate to your own satisfaction. No one will be turned away ever.

Bill

 

The inside plug engine has a certain liveliness to it that is not evident in the later outside plug 250 (road cars). I've been enjoying one these cars since 2003. The throttle to engine response reminds me of when I was a little boy. When mom was gone I would get on her old Singer and play with the pedal, pretending I was Fitipaldi. The way the electric motor would respond to the pedal is just like the way the inside-plug 250 engine reacts to throttle. There must be a lighter flywheel in these engines. I can only imagine what a lighter TdF would do with an engine like that.

The SMC car is plenty lovely. If you aspire to own a 410 Superamerica but can’t afford one, buy a drum braked PF coupe, give it a dignified makeover, and you’ve got the best value in the vintage Ferrari world.

john

 

John,

Although I believe in (perhaps fashionably... but this is a discussion for another thread) driving and maintaining much more than 'garage-queening'--It would be a crime to leave a SuperAmerica in Bahamian weather, with Bahamian corrosion on Bahamian potholes--err... roads.
I'm really looking for a pretty driver to add to the 330. I want to be able to put it on stands and not have a breakdown if I come back after a month and something's not working or corroded or whatever... A friend nearby who has had his 275 since the Nassau Speedweeks of the 60's has a local GNC-type place put pieces of his coconuts and palm olives in their centrifuge and cook up a batch of coconut oil for him so he can spray the wheel-wells and underside of his car weekly. I can't have that kind of commitment for some time to come. and I'm counting some in decades : )


Kare,

You've piqued my interest. Would you care to share what you know? I'd appreciate it.


Jim,

Thanks for your input. I have to say I find this car to be spectacularly good looking... Moreso than any other PF I've seen. The color, the interior the wheels... This is the quintessential driver. I don't care whether the serial number is Mitsuru Takahashi's mistress's phone number. I love it. And I want to drive it. Oaks Field in Nassau hasn't had a 250 drive on it since the GTO's of way back when 8mm film was high tech. After they had a go on our 275... I don't care much for Classiche or others poking about saying (in a modenese accent) "eeeee.... that spring's metallurgy iiiis improbable. Iiiiit iiiis not super probable that this is like the one that would have been there... Ehh... and the clearances... They are also improbable."
Anyway, I agree with you about things being put out in the open and have also had a great reference for SMC and Mr. Noon.



Bill,

You've got mail my friend.



Best,
Max



P.S. Marcel, or anyone with an extensive database, I would like to know what you guys have as the original color of 1107. I'm being told that there was only 1 Nero Tropicale that came out of the facory and this was NOT it. Would really appreciate the info.

Thanks

 

There were 34 PF Coupés originally painted Nero Tropicale!
Marcel Massini