Why so much Cali hate?

Concretus!

 

There is also a nice article in Forza that discusses the engine, it's crank design, and other technology. And you can find a lot more of these kind of articles in the Cali threads.

 

"Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know." - Groucho

 

I don't think it is fair to say the supporters of George Bush are the customers that Ferrari intends to attract with the Cali. I never read anything to support that assertion Opus.

We will see how well the Cali fares amoung the high end car market in the next coming months. Given the global poor economic conditions, something we haven't seen since the great depression at least in the US, I think if the Cali sells that will be confirmation enough that Ferrari has done a good job targeting the market.

The styling criticisms have to be shared by Ferrari and Pininfarina. Ferrrari for having approved the design spec and Pininfarina for creating them. Ferrrari purists always point to Enzo as their reference point . But I don't think Enzo placed body design ahead of engine/performance design. Sure the cars were always pushing the style envelope but from what has been written about Enzo, the engine and performance were what mattered most to him. Actually, I think he really cared about the the racing cars. He saw the road cars as a means to an end- a business that supported the scuderia racing team.

Montezemolo, in spite of what critics have written about him, has really fought a battle on two fronts and won. He has modernized the road cars and improved them immensely in terms of reliability and drivability while keeping them at the forefront of performance and technology. And he has elevated the Scuderia F-1 team to a position of dominace for the last decade. He has modernized the Factory and laid the foundation for Ferrari to succeed in the next decade.

Yes he has a huge ego, which may explain his decision to oust Schumacher before his racing career was truly over from a performance perspective. Enzo never would have permitted a driver to have the spotlight that Schumacher attained. For Enzo, who often never attended races, the engine was the star. For Montezemolo, Ferrari and himself, were center stage.

Men have their strength and weaknesses. No man is perfect. No car is either.

 

Ferrari should have named the car something other than "California".I'm sure the new car is technologically sublime but to call that pig a California is a serious insult to the original car,the concept of the original car and everyone who knows anything about the original car.They should have named it...."90120,by Ferrari"....would sell twice as many.
-raptr

 

CONGRATULATIONS TO RAPTR! As the 1000'th person to respond to this thread, you've just won a FERRARI CALIFORNIA!

Oh, I guess you don't want it.... we're sorry. Please excuse our decision change our offer and give it to OPUS.

 

This car certainly fits this scenario....to be given away in a cheezy sweepstakes!!! How "Californian"!!! Absolutly perfect!!! And you're right,I have absolutley no interest in owning the car,but I'd like to win it.I'm sure there is a broker somewhere licking his chops that could sell it for me so that I could use the money to buy an interesting car.Next time let us know when you are running a giveaway,will ya!!!???
-raptr

 

Ok, we are sending you this car you might find "interesting".

Hey, its just a joke, OK? Have a little fun. The California is just a car. No big deal in the grand scheme of things. Some like it, some don't. Some people don't like chocolate ice cream or pizza. Heck, some guys don't like women and I don't put them down.

Live and let live and drive, baby, drive.
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Gee....."you're gay, and you like Pintos...".....uh,wow.Does your mother know that you are playing on her computer again?
-raptr

 

Man, you need some therapy. Be careful or someone will start a new thread titled: "why all this raptr hate?"

Life is way too much fun --- don't miss it.

Now I on the other hand am heading to a pre Super Bowl party at the Palms Hotel in Vegas tonight to find some crazy (aka drunk on Tequila) babes residing there. I know, it sounds like another boring Saturday night but someone's got to do it. Look for the pics on TMZ tomorrow. Gotta run!

 

In fact, you didn't even read that assertion, you imputed it. My point was not that Bush dupes will buy the Cali, it is 'people are stupid', just over half willing to believe the impossible with a full fifth being fully crippled by their prejudices and ignorant credulousness, and therefore the lesson bears repeating.

As long as you bring it up, I would guess it is new 599 and 612 buyers who are of the neo-con rape and pillage persuasion, with new V-8 Ferrari buyers mindlessly echoing their parents' or grandparents' political positions.

They've already done a great job of targeting a market: Eastern-European, Russian & Asian mobsters and unweaned western trust fund babies. They've hit the bulls-eye.

I can remember when they made committed driver's machines.

If it sells well, and I'll allow for the scorched-earth economic policies of Bush-Cheney, it will be the end of Ferrari as anything more than a brand of FIAT, if that's not a fait accompli by its mere production.

 

Word.

 

"You betcha", I'll take it! At $250k out the door, plus the 'one born every minute' premium, one could have a 246 and C/4, fully fettled.

 

I disagree. The Cali is FIAT reducing Ferrari to a brand. A sad and sorry diminution.

 

I heard the same thing about Dinos a long, long time ago. I don't think the Dino has done any damage to the "brand" since. If anything, the Dino brought in more new buyers and enthusiasts who would never have been able to afford or justify the purchase of a 12 cylinder Ferrari. I was one of them.

The Dino was a GOOD thing. The California will be the same.

If you want to talk about reducing a brand, go look at the Audi R8 and future R 10 vs the Lambo Gallardo. Now we're talking about a sorry diminution as the Germans "de-Italianize" one of the great marks of Italia.

 

I here what you are saying about Audi and Lamborghini, but I wouldn't be so quick to write Lamborghini off. I just read last night that the Gallardo has its own all-wheel drive system, NOT Quattro. I was pleased and surprised. If Audi is willing to invest that kind of effort, there is still hope for the Bull.

 

But in terms of beauty, the Dino is universally admired and loved. The California will never achieve that. Not Ever.

 

The key to your statement is using the phrase: "IS" universally admired rather than "WAS" universally admired.

The Dino WAS NOT universally admired and loved. It was criticized as being underpowered, a massed produced product of Fiat, a low cost sell out to try to go after the 911, and the end of Ferrari. When the 308 came out, Dino's were sold on used car lots next to Ford Torino's and Mercury Cougars.

I owned one all through the 80's. Believe me, a lot of 12 cylinder Ferrari owners looked their noses down at the Dino big time, just as the California is getting pasted now.

Yes, the Dino is well loved --today. But, I heard all this baloney about the "end of Ferrari" a long, long time ago.

 

You must have misread my post. I said "IN TERMS OF BEAUTY".. ie, the coachwork. I still stand behind my statement... others welcome to their opinions too.

 

Well Guys as always it is so dangerous to have an opinion these days! Sadly as fan and lover of the great automotive marques I have come to understand more cars (not Motorcars) are now being designed by comittee and not individuals. The same has happened in F1 and many other places. When I look at the new Alfa 8c I see greatness from any angle. According to those who I trust that have driven it ( there are maybe 1000) the ride and handling has suffered mob mentality or Alfa has lost their way.

I find the simple is elegant. My examples are E-type 3.8, TVR Griffith 500,and the 365 Daytona. Jaguar is another victim of group design mentality, When Geoff Lawson was alive he sucessfully integrated the Jaguar DNA into the 1995 XK8/R and the S-type within monetary constraints. His untimely death caused Ford, Parent at the time, to send in Ian MCCallum as the new chief designer after having shaped Aston Martin's image since 1987 as Jaguar Apprentice loaned to Aston Martin. Everyone says he copied the Aston in the new XK series when both are his "penmanship".

All that to illustrate that all car companies from time to time dash off in new stylistic directions (Cadillac).When the Boardroom decides to group design a car to please everyone, in the end you please no one. Toyota and Honda build very good everyday drivers, but it apparent that the billions that they have spent in F1 has been largely unrewarded. One Victory between them since their involvement and that is considered a fluke by most knowledgable observers.

Ferrari has always been in a tug of war between the road car and the Racing car. Enzo always maintained he could care less about the road cars except that they funded the true passion he felt for Racing. He would enjoy all this timewasting conversation as it would mean he could continue unobstructed producing the world's best Racing cars. When he made the decision to sell Ferrari to Fiat that speaks volumes about how much he cared about road cars and their owners. His deal was that when he submitted his racing budget to Fiat they would write the checks and that was it.

I truly love Motorcar design and moving sculpture that results. I love the technical side even more. If you work on your own cars you'll know when I say that Ferrari engineers have not always had their thinking caps on. Largely Ferrari are sturdy enjoyable Motorcars that don't need to be driven gingerly. Warm them up, keep fluids in, watch the gauges and have your wits about you and you'll have a great life experience at a reasonable price. The only warning I can offer is that any post 1996 production date automobile is plagued with as many as 10 computers (approx. $750 each)that must sucessfullly communicate for everything to work. These are the modern version of the power window versus the roll up.

If Ferrari wanted to be truly a great automobile company they would rectify the Big Lie!

Robert Phelps
Photojournalist ( Jaguar Magazine, Racecar Engineering, Jaguar Racing,Motorsport.com and JCNA )
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Robert, you said a mouthful! I think though that we would agree on the version of the California that we would like the best: The folding roof replaced with one that just covers and adds structural integrity. The computers (except for the ECU!) replaced with a defrost slider and window cranks. The luxurious interior replaced with *nothing*, OK, how about replaced with *lightness*. (Thank you Mr. Chapman!) The heavy structure needed to allow the use of a folding roof replaced with more lightness.

OK, that about covers it. What is left is a modern GTO. Front engine, rear wheel drive, light and powerful. Until that model is on the market, I will continue to save up for my used California.

One thing you said has me very curious: have any of your friends, who have driven and disapproved of the 8c, driven the Cali? How would they compare them?

 

No, I did not misread your post. Once again, not true at all. When the 308 GTB came out, everyone said the Dino looked dated. NOBODY complained that the 308 was uglier than the Dino or not a worthy successor. Just look at 308 sales vs Dino sales and you can see right away the 308 was much more exciting and accepted to the general public.

Over time, that opinion may have changed a bit but it does not change the the facts.

Now, if you want to argue which car that came after the Dino is the more beautiful than a Dino, here are some choices: Which of these cars is more beautiful than a Dino in your opinion?

Testarossa
348
400
Mondial
Enzo

All of them? None of them?

The answer is: What difference does it make anyway? Weren't all of these cars -- then and now -- respected, loved, and appreciated by their owners and the public? This argument that the California is so ugly or it's sense of purpose is so out of kilter with what a Ferrari "means" that its some kind of stepback is nonsense. I may think the 250 Lusso is the high mark of Ferrari design but that does not stop me from loving something "less".

The fact is, style and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder AND the time in which the beholder is living.

Lastly, you cannot push the envelope of design without breaking from traditional thinking. Over time, once the unfamilar becomes familar, we begin to accept things for what they really are. Its the job of talented designers to do just that.. force us to see and appreciate something new. Classic design lasts and fads fade. Only over time can you tell the difference.

Want proof? The Daytona was blasted as being unattractive when it first came out. What do we say about it today?

 

Personally, I'd hope for one of these too. Perhaps something more true to the California's heritage, a "Speedster" of sorts that offers less luxury, more lightness and a harder edge. I'd want a lower ride, a larger wheel and maybe a removable hardtop only. That's just me.

Regardless, the reality is that more potential buyers require and desire the amenities the California offers. Ferrari's ongoing profitability and growth demand a product that will offer the volume, margin and R&D amortization that this does. That's just business reality and it's nothing new for Ferrari. The 250 GTE, another softer, more usable Ferrari, sold around 900 units, transforming the company and making possible many of the racing and road-going greats we all love.

The California is similar in this regard and, given Ferrari's increasing reliance on merchandising revenue, the California is actually an opportunity to refocus on doing what they do best. For those who think this is a "sell out", which would you rather have, another Ferrari to serve its customer base or more branded coffee mugs?

 

Those who think that any Ferrari road car is a "sell out", know nothing about Ferrari.

BTW, no, you can't have a removable roof in my vision. The whole point of getting rid of the folding top is to weld a piece of metal in the hole. That allows you to not just remove the folding mechanism, but to also remove the structural reinforcements in the rest of the "chassis" that are only needed because of said hole. Look, I love my Mondial t cab, but if I could have gotten a coupe, I wouldn't have thought twice. Same deal with the Cali, if Ferrari came out with a straight coupe version, (Please! Please! Please! ) that would be my next Ferrari, not the California.

 

Hardly the same thing; a) the 246 was in the pipeline before FIAT took shares and 2) it wasn't ever badged as Ferrari by the factory.

The Cali is a stillborn FIAT Auto (Maserati) project, resurrected by being shotgunned with little black horsies.

Rather than [brand diminution comparable to the 246], it's as if the FIAT Dino Spider had been badged as Ferrari.

My thoughts on the desecration of Lamborghini by Volkswagen (Gallardo chassis/bodies built in a VW plant in Germany, engines built in a VW plant in Hungary) are open and notorious.

In short: The Gallardo is a GREAT Volkswagen, it is no Lamborghini.