308 Assembly Sequence Numbers

the steel vin's for the early carb cars are STILL wrong in many places, Ferrari included. i owned *20433* and it was a steel USA spec 76 GTB. there were several vin's before mine that are in the USA that also were steel. so if these numbers are off, how far off are the other numbers. i applaud someone like Rifledriver for taking data off of actual cars, and not suspect 35 year old data bases.

i could see a valid point that a GT "B" 1980 "I" would be rare, as most folks wanted the GTS. i know my euro GTB QV is not that "common" either. but i doubt it affect the value of the cars much.

 

Your efforts to collect and distribute accurate data are to be applauded. Even though the newest available info indicates that mine is one of at least 85 cars built it is good to know that someone is taking the time to sort this out and correct previous misperceptions or flat out falsehoods.

Out of curiosity, how many 1980 308 GTBi owners are on this board? Even now, it looks like a pretty small production number.

Mike

 

OK, since this question keeps coming up, I have gone back into my records.

Background: About 5 years ago I started to keep a running informal log of the serial numbers of all of the 1980 – 82 Ferraris wherever I encountered them, so to see where my car fit in the production schedule. Sources for these numbers are such as this website, eBay auction cars, classified ads, magazine articles, and so forth.

(By the way - mine is a 308 GTSi, serial 33589, assembly number 518A, manufactured September 1980.)

The focus of attention for this discussion is upon those cars who have an “A” in the 10th digit of their serial number, thus denoting a 1980 model year USA (or Middle Eastern) spec model.

The first of these that I have in my records is 31309 made in March 1980, and the last is 34495 made in November 1980. (As an aside, notice that this one-year model range curiously covers only a 9 month calendar period.)

Working only with odd serial numbers, this is a range of about 1593 cars (let’s round this to an even 1600 cars). Of course, keep in mind that these numbers are for the entire range of cars made for all world markets during this time period (including the 400 series, Mondial, Boxer, etc.) and not just for the 308 “i” series.

Of these 1600 cars, I have records of 211 serial numbers between these two (2) min. and max. boundary numbers. So, you can see that I have only about (211/1600) = 13% of them in this range documented so far.

Of these 211 model year 1980 numbers that I have, I count 127 of them to be 308 GTSi models. That’s (127/211) = 60% of my total.

If we, for the moment, assume that the percentage of my small random sampling is representative of the whole, then we might reasonably expect (0.60)(1600) = 960 of the 308 GTSi models altogether to have been manufactured for the 1980 model year. However, this value strikes me as a bit on the high side – I tend to believe that my collection over-emphasizes the USA-spec models and that the actual number is closer to the 500 to 600 range … but that’s merely my opinion.

Next, looking at the 1980 model year 308 GTBi models, I count 28 of them, or (28/211) = 13% of the total. Extrapolating this same 13% value to the whole, we might anticipate (0.13)(1600) = 208 total USA-spec 308 GTBi models manufactured for the model year 1980. But, as before, this value seems a bit on the high side to me – I’d estimate an actual number of something closer towards 150 or so.

So, to summarize, I tend to believe that there were about 500 to 600 of the USA-spec 1980 308 GTSi models made, about 150 of the USA-spec 1980 308 GTBi models made, and about 900 “other” cars, consisting of all other models of 308’s for other world markets as well as all non-308 models, for this 1980 model year.

You should of course take these numbers with a pinch of salt, as my informal collection of numbers is obviously non-definitive.

But the key point to be made is that, even considering my very limited sampling data base, these 308 “i” numbers certainly show the “only 29 made” factory claim which has been referenced earlier to be erroneous.

Enjoy - DM

 

Checking my personal registry, 33293 is labeled as: "Mondial or GTBi (conflicting info)".

So if you can clear up this uncertainty, there'll be one more known data point.

In the sequence, looks like 33293 would have been July 1980 build month.

Cheers - DM

 

And here is one of the reasons this info is so hard to accurately get. In my haste on that post I read the number from the wrong line.

I have 33293 as a GTB but it is not confirmed. The number I really meant to post is 33207 which is a GTS #440A and is well known to me.

 

YOU KNOW I HAD A WIFE ONCE THAT EVERYTHING I SAID, NOT MATTER WHAT RESEARCH I HAD DONE, NO MATTER MY EDUCATION, OR BUSINESS SENSE, I WAS ALWAY WRONG!

Reason #945,000,000,000 why not to post anything on fchat.

Brian your name is now Virginia! Have a great life. I'm out of here.

Kelly

 

Just a slightly off-topic question:

In the USA it is obviously common to refer to a 'model year', while here in Europe we rather take into account the 'year of manufacture'. I think I have read an article a long time ago, concerning a different car/model, that in the US cars built after September or October would be counted as the following years model. Is this really the case?

If yes, could that different way of counting at least add to the confusion?

Thanks for any enlightenment!

Robert

 

Yes my 1984 QV was built on Dec. 1983

 

Mmmmm,

just to add fuel to the fire, I have a UK 308 GTB Steel and Carbed #29875

It was registered new in Jan '81.....but the # seems t o be 3/4 the way through the Steel numbers....I'll have to go and have a look at the build/assembly numbers if I can find them

 

Typically here in the US the car companies would stop production of the current models around June and then start retooling for the next year's models. The new models would then be available at the dealers in September or early October. This was much more important and pronounced a few decades ago when there would be significant changes fro year to year. Look at the changes in American cars from year to year in the 50s and 60s.

As a result, we got to look at anything in the dealers in the last three months of the year or so as the next years models. I don't think the Europeans or the Japanese stuck to the strict model year change overs like the Americans did. I can remember some of their cars changing various parts during the model years as they ran out of a supply and bought something different. Some cars would have two or three different style grills in a single year.

 

1977 308 GTB Black/Black (Original and current color scheme)
VIN: 20817
Date of Manufacture: January 1977 (1/28/1977)
US LHD
Purchased from New Jersey Ferrari
Assembly Sequence: 136
Engine: F106A*02041*

Certified through Ferrrari Maranello
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Model Years is another strange US rule so that things can look like something they are not. From Wikipedia: "In the United States, for regulation purposes, government authorities allow cars of a given model year to be sold starting on January 2 of the previous calendar year." So legally the 2010 model year cars can be for sale here right now. But manufacturers can also not advance a model year - there's some window to continue last year's model. One of the car magazines pointed out a few years ago that one model truck was currently being manufactured as two model years simultaneously. So theoretically you should be able to buy a brand new, not discontinued car in the USA right now in 2008, 2009 or 2010 model years.

 

Brian and Papa Duck,

thanks a lot for explaining. That's a quite confusing rule, I have to say.

Maybe it makes the customer feel better when he buys a 2010 car in January 2009... It reminds me of the british "MotorSport" magazine, which was deliverd to me in Germany today, so probably it has been for sale in the UK even some days earlier. It is the March 2009 issue!

But coming back to our beloved 308's, I think referring to 'model years' does not make much sense. Any changes in the cars specs were not connected with a certain 'model year'. The minor changes ('upgrades' or sorting out problems) were done constantly. Also the major changes (fiberglass > steel, 308 carb > 308i 2-valve > 308i QV) were not done when a new 'model year' started. Those different models were obviously even built side by side for a certain, overlapping period.

Robert

 

I think one of the reasons US automakers show next year models in the previous fall, is to boost sales. I think most people like to shop for cars and houses when the weather is nice. When I sold cars if it rained or was cold, sales were very slow.
I live in Florida.

Charles

 

Kelly,

Come on and knock it off. Brian, Carbon (NNO) and others here are the Myth-Busters of Ferrari. Yeah their truths might hurt (hurt me once or twice too) but so what?

We are all here it get to the bottom of this elusive marque. That is part of the reason we love it; it is because, it is ............... well ............. it is what is. Very much less than perfect. Elitist, exclusive, loveable, screwy and very hateable. Ask Ford about their Model T's and you'll get the same wishy-washy BS. I have a 1915 coupe, my brother a 1917 truck, so I know first hand. Ferrari vs Ford, SSDD. No one alive REALLY KNOWS. But it CAN BE PIECED TOGETHER.

Enjoy the ride brother and join in the quest for the truth and revel in the fact YOU HELPED discover it.

This is as close to being Indiana Jones as many are ever likey to get.

Viva Ferrari.

 

Timr, congrats on the Certification!

#20405 (1976 Production)

#22127 (1977 Production)

#22641 (1977 Production)

All of mine are Titled as "1977"s.......

 

You did this on purpose.

Andrew, is it safe to assume that your car is RHD...?

Alan, are these two cars US models or Euro cars...?

 

Earlier in this thread, Carbon writes

IMHO, the assembly numbers are not given PER YEAR, but all over the production time of a certain model.

Example:

1977 308 GTB Euro LHD, s/n 21355, assembly# 765
1978 308 GTB Euro LHD, s/n 25859, assembly# 863
1980 308 GTB Euro LHD, s/n 33007, assembly# 1250

If the assembly numbers started all over with # 1 every year, this would be at least 2007 308 GTB Euro LHD in 3 years. No way.

Robert

PS: Some posters have a huge knowledge about the topic, without a question. But nobody knows the whole truth, so there is no point in making 'funny' and sometimes insulting remarks about the ones who - maybe - know less.

 

Robbie... I meant body numbers, sorry. Today, every car has both a body number and an assembly number. It is in these current times that I believe that, while assembly numbers are continuous for all models in all countries year after year, body numbers are specific to each model in each country for each year. My apologies for any confusion.

 

Now I'm confused. So what's this number in the engine bay? Body or assembly?

btw mine is s/n 26637, build-date 30-1-1978 (Ferrari Certificate), Euro drysump steel 308 GTB, engine# 01158 and I guess body# 883. Where can I find the assembly number? Thanks.

Best, Peter
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Peter,
You wrote down exactly the number which many people (like me and Kare Pietila, who started this thread on FChat) are referring to, when they say “assembly number”.

I would say that it is simply a question of defining a term for this number. When the existence of this kind of individual number, which can be found on various parts of our cars, was mentioned to me the first time by friend, he referred to it as the “assembly number”. After that I have read also the term “build number”. Now Carbon introduces in the term “body number”. This, in my opinion, is not the proper term for the number on our cars, because it is not written on the body, but also on the chassis/frame (see your photo) and on some interior parts (for example seats, dashboard). I would rather assume that a body number was given to the bodyshells of the cars, when they were produced at Scaglietti's. But - in case it exists - I don't know if this body number can be found on the car itself, or maybe only on the 'foglio di montaggio' (build sheet).

For today’s Ferraris there are probably precise definitions for those various numbers, which can be found on each individual car, but I dont know about that.

For any further discussions regarding our 'old' cars, it could be useful to agree on one specific term, when we talk about this number, to avoid more confusion.

Robert

 

I have also heard it refers to the "bin" where all the part for that car are. As in, "hey Luigi, get all the 187 parts to build the car."

You never know.

Tim

 

Peter, thank you for this information - my only problem is that I thought 26637 was a Boxer.

Robbie, you're right. I should be saying 'assembly number' and not 'body number'. My apologies. Way back, Ferrari used to give each car both an assembly number as well as a body number. Around the time these early 308s (upon which this thread is based) were built, I do not believe (but don't know with any degree of certainty) that Ferrari gave these cars both assembly and body numbers.

I know that as far back as the '80s, before Ferrari started adorning cars with the five-digit assembly numbers we see on silver plates, cars were specifically given body numbers. At that time, before the aforementioned five-digit assembly number was introduced, I don't know if those cars were also given assembly numbers (I do know that 328s have the same type of assembly numbers as the 308s mentioned in this thread, but I have searched and searched but cannot find these same assembly numbers on early Testarossas).

I do know that now, each car is given an assembly number as well as a body number. For example 134282 has assembly number 51321 and body number 83; 100023 has assembly number 17010 and body number 15; 161635 has assembly number 78927 and body number 181, and so forth.

So, yes, the term in this thread should definitely be 'assembly number'. But on and off, for quite some time, Ferrari has simultaneously used both assembly and body numbers on many cars.

 

Hey Carby, mine are all DOT NON CAT North American versions...wet sumps.....

My lawyer has requested his job would be a LOT easier if I'd only break "one law at a time"....LOL!

Hey, try this 1976 VIN, Carb......19271...engine #00004.......

I sat in it and kicked the tires, the windshield is cracked......but it WOULD be a nice match to my collection, eh?