A show of hands before I start....

I received the feedback I required from Bruce on the prototype fuel filler neck components we had made and now know the changes required to make them a simple install in a material that will last decades.

I know the materials needed to make these a very long lasting part due to all of the fuel research I have done over the past year or so. Now the question comes up, do I make these in numbers higher than what I need for my own use? Ferrari is making it difficult to answer by dropping the price of these to sub $10 levels but are still supplying the old material that is destined to fail again in short order. As this represents a clear and present danger regarding fuel and fumes in the engine bay, it has to be addressed weather using the OEM components or those made of a material designed to deal with the present day fuels.

The OEM components are now very cheap, selling in the sub $40 level for all 4 required to do the job. I believe to be unconditionally trusted they will have to be replaced at an absolute maximum of every 8 years and more like 4-5 years (estimate based on the age of the failing components when we first saw them, minus one year) and suspect the plastic pipe will require replacement every other time due to rough handling required when the rubber components melt to it. Even at that, those prices have dropped to a little more than $220 for the pair including the rubber parts from Ferrari.

Is there interest in having these 'rubber' sleeves made in a material that will last for 3-4 times as long as the OEM but at a cost of 4-5 times that of the OEM sleeves? In very low quantities I expect to see these done in the $225 range including proper clamps which is not cost competitive with Ferrari's parts. Regardless I will be making these for use at my shop but there is a big difference between making 20-30 a year of each part for my own use VS making hundreds if there is an interest. If there is a big interest in this direction then the cost of having molds made is justified and the parts cost drops to half (or less) of that when hand building these in very limited production levels.

I am now ready to start down this path with remolding the in tank components (the in tank parts molds for limited production are already underway but have to be modified for high volume levels) and the filler neck sleeves as the hose products are all finished and underway at this point. Being cost competitive with Ferrari in this area is of no concern to me as the products are in no way created equal. I have no want to have many thousands of dollars tied up in molding costs for parts I can have made by hand in qty's to suit my own needs but I do not want to keep this private if there is a want for better parts availibility albeit at much higher prices.

Thoughts?

Dave

 

348, 355, Mondial T, 512 TR&M, 360, CS

Cranky, crotchity...... bwcawright (as you can tell, we beat each other up a couple of times a week, now I am one up).

Bruce has his fuel tank out and offered to help me with this test fitting as he is dealing with the failure of all of his fuel system components, both in and out of the tank on his 355.

 

Thats what causes the delima. The job of changing the sleeves is fairly simple and straight forward. Run the tank half dry, jack the car up, pull the wheel well and change them out. No different using my parts VS the Ferrari parts.... about an hours job, double that if things have turned to gum. About $40 parts delivered cost for OEM, low $200's if the plastic pipe is damaged in the process and needs replacement but they must be done on a regular basis. The only advantage to what I am looking at doing is the longevity of the sleeves. Based on the history of the hose liner material I would be using to make them it suggests a life span in the 15-20 year range rather than what I spoke about earlier for the part from Ferrari.

The job of doing the intank components is a whole different animal. Requires draining the tank and pulling the components out the bottom. Safety risks are involved in doing this job. Anyone that has had to do this on a 550 with their head stuck in the trunk breathing the fuel fumes while cleaning debris out of the tank, fumes filling the car's interior, fumes filling the whole darn shop.... thats a job one only wants to do once! The 348/355 require the pumps to be pulled out the bottom of the tank leaving one or two 6" holes filling the garage/shop with fumes.... The intank components are being done for my own use because of the risks like this and to the whole FI system when they fail. Labor is a big factor here as well as it is not a very simple job. My only decission here is wheather the mold is made for high levels of production or very small levels for my own use only. Either way, that is being done.

 

Numbers 26, 26, 30 on the fuel tank page's.

On the next Tav. 11 are the two small sleeves 142106 that are suffering the same fate and comprise the other two parts in the set of 4.

In very low production levels the end cost would be in the $225 range for all 4 with proper clamps. With a $1.5K investment in a mold the piece cost would be a fraction of that but I highly question if there would be enough interest to re coop the mold costs. The end price would still be higher than those from Ferrari albeit less than 1/2 of the $225 number.

 

Without it we will both be out of a job from to the resulting declining values due to high maintenance costs, this can be changed.

Plenty to fix/service without dealing with this type of thing time and again. If left alone, in time someone will be hurt. I am no longer griping about the parts quality, Im doing something about it. I cant in good conscience work on profitable items until the safety items are either resolved or laid to rest.

In this case it is not a parts quality issue but an issue with the fuel technology moving forward without parts industry adapting to suit it. Either way it was a question that had to be asked.

Dave

 

No chance of that happening, I am unable to wave my arms enough....

Truth be told, a part of me was hoping the popular opinion would lean the other way as this will require a noteable investment before I get the first batch of parts. I will have the engineers finish up with the mold design drawings for the two parts, I have held them back on these thinking the opinion might go the other way.

While interviewing machinests to take over the tool fabrication for the Gold terminal kit I came across a young guy that is very forward thinking, highly tallented and a friend of Niki's to boot. Right now he is very grateful for the work these projects are giving him so good will come from following through with this if thats the chosen direction.

Upside, if this becomes a molded part the end price drops to a fraction of what I was quoting earlier in this thread. Then we hope the sales volume is high enough to pay back the mold costs and in the end, just maybe.... Ohhh, Kris will have me hanging from a tree when I tell her about this!

 

Saw two cars missing them. One was a Spider, rebuilt from two cars being made into one and the other a GTS that had obvious signs of an attempted 'Engine in car Major Service'.

With all of the heat in the engine bay there is a great deal of thermo expansion in the fuel tank once the car is parked and the engine is shut off on a hot day. You can hear the Charcoal Cansiters singing as they vent the pressure while you walk away from the car in the parking lot. This is the time you would want those shields in place and the fuel neck sleeves air and fuel tight. Heat, pressure and fuel vapors are not a friendly combination.