S2000 track car ?

i have been looking at getting something to track / DE. this wouldn't be a full blown "race car" as i only would be tracking it on avg about once a month. so i'll be wanted to thrash it on the street occasionally. i have also considered the miata but i like the s2000 styling better. both can be had in the $10k range. cheap enough to ball up and not go "samurai". thoughts ?

 

might want to consider a used NSX. the 91-95 cars are the real pure-breds - no targa top, stiff suspension and no power steering. in this environment you could probably have one for 15k. i've never tracked a s2000 or miata, but both strike me as better for autocross than big track stuff.

 

A bunch of S2000's ran at my "local" track this weekend (Willow Springs) are were quite impressive; a couple of NSX's too. Would appear to the me, the outsider, that the S2000 needs a bunch of downforce at the rear to get it going really quick (and thus, some weird, BIG wings).

 

i have several friends that tracked their nsx's years ago. seem to recall the cars having oil starvation issues with slicks or the like.

i have noticed the s2000 "WINGS" in some pics during my informational search. i wouldn't need to have the fastest car. just well balanced and nice handing that i could drive the crap out of.

 

It is all possible to get a well balanced car out of the S2000. I've tracked mine for years and might be looking to retire it soon. (big brakes, suspension, lots of spares, etc. etc.) If you want a big wing to keep the rear down around Willow Springs, you can just buy another trunklid and mount a wing on the spare.

The cars are quite fun, but not as cheap as a Miata to track. Pads are a bit more costly, and the offsets on the wheels can be difficult to fit cheaply. If you strip one down, they can be quite a blast when you get under 2550#'s. Otherwise, they are only about 2800#'s, which is still light.

I'd vote for an NSX too, but the costs go up considerably more than an S2000, if it is wrapped up in a corner.

What are your concerns with the S as a track car?

 

S2000 would make an awesome track car. They can be picked up fairly cheap, and are way cheaper to fix if they break than an NSX.

 

+1


Track car should be something you can afford trashing... Not saying that you never should get something half-exotic... Just saying if you can't afford to break it/crash it/ rebuild it, give it another thought...

I think S2000 will be great, because of cheap parts.


Edit: The thing is that once you get on the track and get hooked you might get in to the evil circle of modding your car. Be it brakes, suspension, power, whatever. That's were the S2000 is peanuts compared to 20.000 $ NSX Turbo kits and 4000-10.000 $ NSX braking kits... Or a 3000 $ NSX rear downforce designed wing... And so on

 

And plus, Honda has that S2000 CR (club racer) now, which to my knowledge isn't that far-off from the regular S2000, proving that they're pretty good for the track.

 

i found a couple s2000 forums. what is the AP1 vs AP2 ? is that the switchover from 2004 on when the revamped the vtec, increased torque and lowered the redline ? otherwise, i don't see much difference in the MYs. looks like the early cars are very peaky - which for track use wouldn't matter.

i've driven the skip barber miatas. would a equally prepped s2000 be faster, more balanced and or a better track car ?

 

I actually own a Mazda Miata and a Honda S2000 (yes it's ridiculous), and the Miata feels much more powerful around town, but if you can find an empty backroad or track where you can keep the S2000 above 5000 rpm it just flys. The steering is much faster and more direct on the Honda.

They're both great cars, I don't think you'd go wrong with either.


Almost forgot...You should probably consider an MR2 Spyder also, plenty of power and lighter than a Miata and a S2000.

 

Before you buy a S2000, please read this thread. http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=24730

 

I bought a 2006 S2K new and drove it 54,000 miles with noooo problem, then traded it for a 2008 CR, 23,000 miles so far with noooo problem except relatively short tire life. I've never tracked either one so I can't say how much fun they relatively are. If you want to track without worrying too much about stuffing it, I wouldn't suggest a factory CR, since Honda only made 668 (mine is #609!) CRs for MY08, probably no more than a spoonful for 09, and just announced that the S2000 is gone forever in June. But you're right about the differences being minor; you can get one of the 65,000 regular S's and make a near-CR out of it. The only internal difference I can think of is removal of the convertible mechanism and replacement with stiffeners, and the rest is all rice--"race tuned" suspension, quicker steering (really just a return to the AP1 steering ratio AFAIK), shorter shifter, nice splitter, a wing that seems to actually work, fabric upholstery, wider rear tires, and three CR badges.

The CR is at its best, I think, if you don't take it too seriously, and just enjoy it as a moderately fast, incredibly reliable roadster, or even your daily driver, as I do. Rides a little stiff, but the stoplight celebrity moments more than make up for it.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

As an owner of an S2000, I must say it's an awesome track car. It's reliable, affordable, and in the right hands the car can be VERY quick. I see countless S2000 drivers putting around in them, complaing about the "snap oversteer" while they're getting tail gated by Honda civics. Honestly, if you're experienced, the S2000 is a great car. My only complaints about the car are very minor, i.e. the position of the shifter feels a bit elevated for me, almost like I have to prop my arm up instead of just reaching down to shift. Also, I'm not particularly tall, and sometimes it feels like i'm seated a bit low. There is also the power issue, but I was more than aware of this when I bought the car, I always say, if the car had an extra 200hp, it would be a beast.

 

Over here at Buttonwillow the S2000 is arguably the fastest car on the track. The *only* cars that I've seen faster are highly modified Evos & STis. The car is *much* faster than the power/weight would indicate.

Most of the NSX owners I talk to actually prefer to drive the S2000! I prefer the semi-exotic look of the NSX over the S2000 though.

 

i read thru it. was that the final assumption ? post i read stated the interior / cage was intact after the crash.

 

AP1 - 2.0liter, 9000 RPM rev limit
AP2 - 2.2liter, 8000 RPM rev limit

The AP2 has different gearing. Everything is very close and for some tracks, it can be right on, or can be just annoying IMO. The suspension changed slightly each year. Not with the swaybars, but with the spring rates. Some years are very balanced, other years might need a little tweaking (diff coilovers, and the stockers would be shot on the early years if they haven't been replaced already) The 03's are one of the best years. The AP2s smoothed things out and balanced the car out very well. The CR, just an overall great car. While the tweaks were minimal, engineers touching here and there, it is just a great package.

Forums: www.s2ki.com www.s2kca.com There is also a small section on honda-tech.com, but not too many serious guys on there. I would recommend the racing & competition section of s2ki for the best information.

For the concerns on the accidents and the fatality - rollovers and accidents do happen. They happen in all cars, and in this car, yes indeed, there are some groups who will not allow you on the track with an S2000 without an aftermarket roll bar which meets clearance spec with your helmet and the bar. If you are tall, and using a stock seat, you'll need to get a bar made, or aftermarket seats to lower you into the cabin. The seat clearance is difficult. There's only a few seats that actually fit. Others might barely fit, but the door might not close, and the center console (your glove compartment) will be useless. There was an incident a few months ago at TWS during an HDPE. Since then, S2000's are required to have a proper roll bar. That is only with that group though. In other groups that I run with, we do not require it. But that does depend on the track and the group running the events. I will say this, I have witnessed many accidents on track with an S2000 - and it is an extremely safe car. In rollovers, drivers have walked away.

 

FWIW,

I went on a drive with a car club where we all switched cars throughout the day. I let them drive my 308 and in return I got to drive some cool cars. I drove an NSX and S2000 back to back and they were owned by a husband and wife. When they asked my opinion I told them driving the NSX was NO-FUN at all; I might as well been driving a luxury sedan. The car had a lot of power and handled finebut felt like I was driving a BMW or Mercedes with the quiet interior and the stereo and all. Just didn't have that sport car feel. On the other hand that high rev of the s2000 certainly made it feel like a race car although that to was a little too smooth for my taste. I like driving old sports cars that rattle and shake as you go over the bumps, I feel connected that way.

 

The referenced thread would have taken you to this analysis: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=650078&st=25

It poses a significant issue with the S2000. This issue appears to be easily fixed with braided lines. Every street car has short comings when tracked. While most often it is the street driver trying, unsuccessfully, to be Shumacher, sometimes the car needs safety enhancements first. This accident happened to a very experienced driver. His death appears to be caused by the lateral force which occurred when he hit the concrete wall sideways. There appears to have been no side helmet restraint.

Bottom line is that you put your life and your car's value on the line once your go through pit-out. I have been tracking my cars, including my 355 when I had it, for almost 20 years and I have held a competition license for the past 2 years. I strongly support and recommend tracking. The prerequisites are safety equipment and knowledge. Spend some time at the track talking to the "trackers" and spend some time on the S2000 site learning. I think it is a great car with certain limitations in its power range. But, every car has its shortcomings and the S2000 does very well on the track.

Good luck with your track car selection.

 

"NSX was NO-FUN at all; I might as well been driving a luxury sedan. The car had a lot of power and handled finebut felt like I was driving a BMW or Mercedes with the quiet interior and the stereo and all"
My NSX was not quiet, the engine noise was great, right behind you, like all mid engine cars are, it was not a luxury sedan, stereo was anemic, so your version surely must have been something else....

 

found this old video of protoype SSM (now known as S2000). Test driver ranks it right up there or maybe better than NSX.



http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7662325404894830688&hl=en

 

Hondas are rock solid have two and have never had any issues with them.

Check out the Honda thread!


http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217758

 

Have you thought of a 2003 or 2004 350z? 50/50 balance, reliable, good power, cheap and fun. Or a early year z06... ultimate track car in my opinion but I would feel you would have reliability problems

 

You would have way more reliability problems with a 350Z, especially an 03, than with a Vette.

 

the miata/s2000 choice is pretty easy..if you want a car that is easy to drive at the limit and not be the fastest then the miata is a good choice...it really feels a bit like vintage racing... however an s2000 requires much more skill and attention to really drive fast and smoothly...as an ex- owner of a early 2000 [ap1] and a current 08 cr [+ many years of laguna seca track time] i would recommend an early lo milage ap1..cheap, easy to get mods for and really puts you on the line to step up and learn how to drive fast.

[as an old fart i have driven/raced abarths, porsches, ferraris, maseratis, loti, all things english, vintage sprinters and indy cars-and a few grand prix bugattis...after all that, and with the ability to pretty much get most anything to drive every day- well, i chose an s2000. it's a bit like a fat lotus super seven with a body, 250 hp, six gears and a power range of 7500-9000 rpm....pretty much all i would want in a sportscar....but hey, that's just my opinion.]

 

(I feel I need to preface this with the fact that I'm 41 years old and have never raced)

All the kids seem really excited about the Subaru WRX. Does it deserve mention in this conversation?

-DrC