Mega Thread: The 430 Replacement (F450, F500, etc)

Ok, I see it's a re-post...apologies again...!!

 

I've sent four mails to various moderators asking for a new group for the new car.

I don't know why they can't do so. Maybe its somehow better to have all the F450 talk in the totally unrelated 360/F430 group?

Maybe someday we'll get the new group. Then it will be easy to see the existing articles so you don't have to take the time (appreciated by the way) to post an article (albeit for the second or third time).

 

well although f450 name is not certain, one thing should be certain 0-100 of new car must be really good

competition around is enormous, lp560, gtr all beating 430 in 0-100

so new 430 should have like around 3.5sec 0-100

worser than that will dissapoint me

 

How often do you do 0-100 km/h sprints?

 

I really don't know why the 0-100 is that important to some people. With cars as powerful as they are today, this measurement has nearly no meaning at all, as the very potent sportscars are more of less all the same here.

 

In the real world, the GT-R is hands down faster then the F430 (manual spider at least). There is a huge difference between what the GT-R achieves in real-world conditions, and what I THOUGHT were fast cars.

I think on a perfect surface, when driven "like you stole it" a F430 is at least close. But throw in less-than perfect surface, manhole covers, a bit of oil, maybe even some rain and the Ferraris are not in the same class.

Gunning it from 0 to 100kmh is something you can do at practically every stoplight in practically every city any time of day. Its fun. Its one notch more fun in a GT-R than my spider.

The spider has other benefits (open roof, manual shifter, the sound). It'd be nice if it was as fast too.

I kind of think that coupe owners with F1's, though, really would be happier in a GT-R with an aftermarket exhaust.

 

with today's performance 0-200 is more like it......0-100 depends more on a good launch....0-200 says more about the real pulling power.

 

I am more interested in passing acceleration,like 50-100,80-120 etc.

 

I agree that 0-200 is much more meaningful than 0-100. 0-100 is too dependent on electronic aids and 4WD in cars in the 3s. An who cares if you can do 3.5 or 3.3. You're likely not going to get either times without using some sort of electronic launch control.

Now, it's fun to brag about 0-300. The Enzo does it in 26 seconds!

60 to 130 MPH has been a very popular performance measurement among enthusiasts in the US. There's much data published on that. It really shows how fast a car is in real life. Some very fast street cars are in the 4 second region!

 

that too ofcourse.....

 

lets hope the Fcar will have the Torque of the Ford 450 !!!

 

I keep telling people that this is silly since many cars are very close in doing the 0-62mph sprint very closely despite of pricing difference. For example in a 0-62mph a Nissan GTR, F430, 997tt are impressive and even more when compared to the super expensive cars, but compared them to a Carrera GT or Enzo sprint of 0-130mph or 150mph and they will be rather really really slow in comparison.

 

IMO, modern performance cars have gotten so powerful that a tipping point has been reached. It is a rare occasion I can use my 430's full power on the street for more than few seconds. Fortunately, there are track days, but only a couple a year. Sometimes I find myself wishing it had less power so that I could keep my foot in it longer. Also, wind it all the way out in 4th and you are already in "take me to jail" territory. Finally, all the power has necessitated all the electronic nannies to get the power down and keep it on the road while in the hands of unskilled drivers. Let's face it, very, very few of us are talented enough to wring out all the performance these cars offer today.

Dave

 

I'll trade your 430 for my Jeep...you can stand on the gas all day in the Jeep and only get to 40 mph

 

I still have no idea of what my 430 would do if I stomped it off the line. I must admit I'm curious, but have never done it.

 

Should try it...

Here are two 430 from flat out from around 30 km/h to around 260 km/h...going up hill.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v59/Ferrari360/?action=view&current=awesome.flv

 

I agree. That's why 'feel' and 'character' are important when choosing a modern sports car. Unless you live in an area where you can use the speed, the car better do something else for you. I would have enjoyed my old 996TT a lot more if I had access to unrestricted sections of the Autobahn. Driving it around town and the back roads.. it was nice, but didn't excite all that much. Sure, mods help, but we shouldn't have to throw $25K into an expensive car to make it what we want it to be, and blow most of the warranty in the process.

FWIW, I enjoyed driving the GT3 much more than the Turbo. The 430, even more so. The only problem is, the Ferrari tempts you into speeding like no car I've had before. It just wants to go, and it feels so good!

Tracking is great, but, as you said, it's only a couple of times a year for most people (if that). Out on the road, the police have been issuing more traffic violations to offset budget cuts. I've heard of people pulled over for over-the-limit speeds that were ignored previously (i.e. 5-10 over).

If these new cars keep getting faster, I don't know what we're gonna do. We're only human, after all! (lol)

 

bottom line, whether we own these cars or not, its just bragging rights for the manufacturer we like! yes, its different for everyone on here but let's face it, every magazine whether it being European or American all gauge each other by certain criteria, such as 0-60.

so, when anything Ferrari is faster than say a Lambo, i get to rub in my best buddy's face!

 

A few things I would like to see:

No more ugly, annoying warning buzzer if you turn the key without putting on your seat belt first.

A smaller, lighter and most importantly thinner body. The current car is too big and too wide. Needs to be more like a 308 in terms of size.

No more wind deflectors on spiders

Less wind noise from rear view side mirrors

A rear view camera, perhaps with the screen mounted inside the rear view mirror so you don't have this giant screen in the dash. Would be cool if you could pan and zoom the camera from the cockpit.

Pop out GPS -- so it's hidden most of the time until you really need it.

No voice controls of anything

No more silly starter button. It was cool in 2005 but now everyone has copied it.

A one touch top up and down button

No "engine out" routine maintenance

A matt finish, complete carbon fibre dash including glovebox

Rev limitor but not automatic shifting.

Car does not start in AUTO mode.

Whatever the next step is for the glass engine cover. Again, its been copied too much.

Push button adjustable ride height.

An electrical system that does not require a battery tender if left for a long storage time.

A gas gauge that is analog, not digital.

No TFT/computer graphic displays in the dash.

Multi adjustable settings for gearbox aggressiveness and shock settings

Downshifting throttle blips even if the Dual clutch doesn't require it.

Preinstalled engine fire extinguisher system -- like race cars

Remote controlled, inside the cockpit exhaust loudness changer so you can creap home at 3 in the morning without waking your neighbors.

Driver controlled fuel management/economy settings.

Power-to-pass feature that gets you an extra 1000 rev's once and a while.

A minimum of exposed buttons and switches.

A third version aside from coupe or spider that is a "speedster" -- cut down window, no top at all, lighter weight

Launch control for US buyers (I'm sure this is coming with the Dual clutch gearbox but I wanted to mention it anyway)

A four year bumper to bumper warranty -- and 6 years/unlimited miles on Dual clutch gearbox

A price no higher than a well optioned current F430.

Valet button that limits what they can do with it when you're not around.

Carbon fibre outer door panels (painted to match the body color) that will not get door dings!

And the last thing.... instant invisibility when police radar is detected!

 

True, but who cares about "real pulling power?" Most people just like G-forces. 200kph gets your licenced revoked in Japan whereas you can get away with 100kph on any of the main arteries of Tokyo.

The other nice aspect of acceleration is passing. My spider's almost as fast as my old GT-R over 5000RPM (once on a roll, at higher speeds, in the dry, on smooth roads), but the GT-R will pass a car faster than you can even get a 430's revs up to 5000RPM much less shift.

BTW I plan on making some youtube vids of a friend's GT-R vs. the spider now that I'm finally past 1000km.

 

Disagree.

1) A supercharged Atom can do 2.9 and Caterham R500's can do it in 3.0 or 3.1 without 4WD or launch control.

2) Why are "electronic aids and 4WD" to be scoffed at? You might as well say that its unfair to talk about launching an F430 out of a corner because the e-diff gives you benefits. Or that measuring its acceleration under any conditions is unfair because the F430's made of aluminum or that it was tested in a wind tunnel. Not to mention the F1, or even the electronic ignition you have. I think you should look at the car in total, with all its systems.

3) 0-200 is an interesting statistic but its not real-world at least where I live. The 9ff is faster than a Bugatti 100-200 but slower than an F430 0-100 because of traction issues, so for me I'd never feel the acceleration...

4) The difference isn't 3.3 playing 3.5, which anyway I think would be noticeable. I'd say the manual F430 spider, on normal artery road surfaces, might be 0-100kph in like 4.2, 4.3? 4.5? There's dust and debris, broken surfaces, oil slicks, and less room to fishtail. The GT-R is not phased by any of that is more like 3.8? There is a HUGE difference. between the two.



There used to be a pickup sold in the US market advertised as having "the biggest payload in its class." The class was half-ton payload pickups, according to the fine print, and this pickup's payload was, you guessed it, a half ton. You can ALWAYS find some aspect of any vehicle thats top of its class numerically, and most of the time it doesn't mean anything.

Instead just talk about how enjoyable the car is. There, I don't think a manual spider can be beat by any car with warranty coverage.

 

I agree with bdelp's wishlist.

One important thing on the Speedster: the convertible is weaker and heavier than the hardtop, because the hardtop doesn't provide rigidity and the so the floor has been reinforced heavily--but not heavily enough to make up the difference.

Instead, if a speedster had sills that cam up to the half-way mark on the doors, so that the door was only the "top half" of the current door, then the resulting car could probably be made stronger but LIGHTER than the coupe. Ingress/egress would be a problem... but since there's no roof, it wouldn't be a BIG problem. Instead of the current top, make something simpler to only be used in emergencies, and make the interior rainproof...

 

engine out routine maintenance is already a thing of the past for ferrari.. maintenance is now essentially affordable in most modern exotics.

 

I have a CGT and my friend has a GT-R. We never do 0-60 on the track. 60 to 130 is more common on our tracks. In that range the CGT is MUCH faster than the GT-R even though the GT-R 0-60 is the same or faster than the CGT. So, in this situation, 0-60 is not a good measure of real-world performance for us; 60 to 130 is. Same for the Ferrari cars.

 

I tried this with my 360. Turned off traction control and just mashed the accelerator... left a couple hundred dollars worth of rubber on the pavement. I lifted because it didn't seem like it was going to stop and I was already 40+ feet into and exotic car burn-out.

I have no idea what my F430 would do (and I'm not doing that again!!), but just based on how much more powerful the F430 feels than the 360, I'd have to imagine it would be even more extreme.

Frank