F40 prices sinking fast? Asking below $499k and no takers

Regardless, there are RHD F40s. They are F40s even if Ferrari doesn't want to view it that way.

EDIT: I always thought that Ferrari did the conversions on the Sultan's cars but I certainly don't know for sure.
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Do you know that to be fact? Ferrari has recognised cars as official Ferrari's that were converted after assembly by the Factory. They've publicly stated in writing that they have. See their official publication about SP1 and the Special Projects that preceded it.

 

As Lenny Bruce said when advising what to say when your wife comes home and finds you on the living room floor on top of her naked best friend: "Who you gonna believe me or your eyes?"

 

Though I have never driven an f40 and aspire to own one, I snuck a seat in one at the museum at Modena. This was at the beginning of November 08. There was an Enzo, GTO, lusso, all of the beauties and notable ones. None and I mean NONE of those cars compared to the beauty and honesty of lines and purpose as the f40. I think I own the second most beautiful f-car but this is a car that simply takes your breath away, and I think the better you know her the more you love her.

(my 2 sense only)

Great thread.

 

lol...

 

Yes there are RHD F40s in existence.

But clearly DM18 was making the point that 2000yellow360 was assuming Read Head has a RHD F40 because he is in the UK. I will leave it for Read Head to confirm one way or another...

 

No mine is LHD as Enzo intended. RHD go for a slight premium over a LHD if you can get hold of one. Talacrest currently have one for sale. Personally I wouldn't want a RHD one.

 

Thank you for the clarification Red Head.

Meanwhile now that the deal is completed, I have sold a 1992 with 1,950 miles to Mexico for $495,000 plus 5% commission = $519,750 as I have informed many of you privately.

I will keep you informed of any real sale that occurs where I can independently verify the information, or am directly involved.

 

Wow! Haven’t visited this thread in a while and I guess I missed the ole barroom brawl!

First of all I’m glad to see that a CLEAN, NO STORY, LOW MILEAGE F40 recently sold for $500k+! As I previously indicated the market is not crashing on F40s as some of you seem to believe (or want to happen for your own gain). There will always be exceptions to the rule but exceptions don’t dictate a market.

Secondly everyone here who has an opinion about a F40 and does not own one (or has never owned one) really can’t make any definitive comments about the car since it takes more than a ride to really understand what it’s all about. Going for a ride around the block will never show you the car’s true character, its capabilities, quirks, etc. That comes with experience and time.

I’ve ridden in an Enzo a couple of times and once with a professional Ferrari GT race driver. Needless to say I was impressed beyond belief. The F40 is not an Enzo and I don’t even think you can compare the two. They’re from different eras with very different technologies. To say one is better, more visceral, more exciting, more raw, etc. is really not applicable since everyone’s definition of “raw” and “visceral” are different. The two cars are supercars in their own right and from totally different eras.

The F40 is an icon from an era when Datsun 280ZXs were cool cars. I can’t even imagine what owners from the 80s thought when they first drove these things. The car – to this day – evokes everything that Ferrari was about back then. It has all the rough edges, the raw power, the hand built craftsmanship, the design, the sexiness, and the allure that defined Ferrari. That’s something that will only grow with time.

Out of the 200 U.S. cars made there are probably 150 examples left in existence here. Since 1990 a number have either been exported or crashed. If anyone really thinks GOOD, CLEAN, NO STORY, LOW MILEAGE F40s are headed to sub-$300k prices – think again. Proof is in the pudding as the saying goes. I have yet to hear of a clean, no story, low mileage F40 selling for under $450,000. Now Joe shows us one that recently sold for $500,000+. Definitive proof that prices are holding and may in fact be firming up.

 

I'm a potential buyer so take this with a buyer's grain of salt.

If a 1992, 1,900 mile car sells for $500K then what does a good, honest 12,000 to 15,000 mile car go for; mid to low $400k?

I don't see how that sale shows any evidence of the market firming.

Drew Altemara

 

Dear Drew Altemara:

Of course, being a "POTENTIAL" buyer your point of view is hardly surprising!

Personally I could care less where the market is. What I do care about is the hypocrisy, and the spinning and the blatant misrepresentation.

Ask yourself this: what does the sale of an F40 in excess of $500k show? That prices are collapsing? You tell us...

I stood there and inspected an Enzo and a GTO in Scottsdale a few weeks ago. They were nice, but Ive seen nicer. They sold for $1.25 million and $616k respectively. If prices are not firming with some of the rarer more desirable Supercars, what are they doing in your opinion? Collapsing? You tell me...

To say that the sale of an F40 over $500k does not show evidence of a firming market is akin to saying that "the fundamentals of the economy are strong". Remember him?

 

Jeffrey:

As an owner, you get it.

Whats interesting through all the bar-room chatter is the formation of the "Society for the preservation of the F40". LOL. Poor car! Youd never have thought the F40 would need anyone to speak in its defense as an item of some value, but clearly the ulterior motives of those who do not own them has in fact become a catalyst for something I think is quite positive.

In some industries, there are serious consequences for those that talk an asset down in order to subvert the natural course of its value to their benefit. Unfortunately not in the classic car business - yet.

Perhaps in the end we will thank mjw599 for starting this thread and it will be used to document the car's real values as they turn around (one day they will, one day...), rather than used as a pulpit from which to malign the facts.

 

Joe,

Based on your last reported sale at $499K, it says that higher mileage cars in the 12,000 to 15,000mi range should be lower and somewhere in the mid $400K range if the spread between low mileage to higher mileage cars is still valid.

And I do care where the market is Joe. I stated that I was a potential buyer straight off. I would guess I'm like a number of folks in that these cars are becoming more affordable, have always wanted one, but don't want to rent on the way down if the rent is substantial.

I do appreciate you posting of actual pricing for the community.

Regards,

Drew Altemara

 

Dear Drew Altemara:

Im glad you appreciate my efforts at accuracy. You should, if you are a serious buyer, because you don't want to be fooled into thinking that such a thing as a "cheap" F40 exists. F40 owners are not stupid. They know what they have. This notion of "renting on the way down" is quite silly. Its a matter of supply & demand. Perhaps when you have decided its finally the bottom, the quality of car available might not be what you want. Even an investment broker worth anything will tell you that you cant always time the market. And who among us has the audacity to decide that its not yet the bottom, its the bottom, or the bottom has past? Let the numbers tell us, and just accept it.

You are not correct that a sale in excess of $500k shows no firming. It does. I personally have purchased good well-maintained low mileage F40s for much less than that number in a much better economy. Thats a fact.

Also, allow me a slight correction please, in the name of accuracy. I did not say $499k. I said $495k.

Dont worry, I will make it my mission to inform fairly & accurately on F40 sales in the USA as they relate to the quality of the car sold. If a car sells cheaply, the question must be answered, how many miles did it have? What was its REAL condition? How much would it really cost to make it perfect? Is it an "accident car" like the one that just sold at RM? As a potential buyer, you would really want to know those things wouldn't you? Im sure you would. Maybe this thread has a positive purpose after all.

 

Here is ZFFMN34A7M0087345, the 94th of 211 Tipo USA F40s built by the works, the first 1991 car. It is owned by Michael S today in his awesome collection. It has some 750 miles on the clock. If he grew bored of it and asked me how much he should ask for it, what should I advise him?
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Good money, the market seems to be creeping back up....probably because so many are looking for these magical $300,000 ones?

 

Just for general clarification: I am personally NOT saying the market for good cars is going up. What I AM saying is that the market for good cars is NOT diminishing in value at the rates that some who have posted here would have you believe. Thats what I am at pains to say.

When the market bottoms, the actual sales numbers of multiple good cars will tell us that. With owners discussing this issue amongst each other more & more (perhaps as a result of all the negative spin), this might be sooner than I expected. Lets stay tuned.

By the use of apples-to-oranges comparisons it is being suggested that 12,000-mile F40s that are lacking proper maintenance are the standard-bearers for F40 values, and that F40 values are decreasing. But, lets not lose hope and subscribe to the thought that good F40s will be $180k cars or worth nothing at all if China develops labor unrest (it already has), because I distinctly remember reading in the Business & Investment section that "The next bull market has begun", and I have every faith that the people who have proclaimed same know what they are talking about.

 

I'll clarify for you, but I'll try to leave the pomposity out of it. You should try it, it may sell more cars.
The "Next Bull Market" thread was started in mid-September 08 by Jim G. He was making a point that in all downturns there is an upside. The thread rages on, lots of BS but lacking much bull in the ensuing 5 months.

F40's won't be 300k cars (180k smarmily hyperbolic). I kept track of the number of valuation/sky is falling threads for awhile in many sections. Pointless. Car is only worth what someone will pay. If you can pump someone into paying 500(sorry, 495) and are happy, great. Your 5% goes up too. Nice cars go for less, bad cars go for more.

You mentioned a 12k mile F40 lacking proper maintenance not the value benchmark. At no time did I see mention of an ill-maintained car, just a driven car. Your benchmark-495k was a 2k mile(sorry, 1950 mile) 17yo garage queen. You neglected to mention if fuel cell was replaced or how many q3 year belt services it had in it's 1.95k miles- should be about 5 belt services, another due soon. Lacking proper maintenance cuts both ways.

I don't own one, so feel free to dismiss me as you do others. I'm not a potential buyer either-if I wanted one, I'd have it already. But I love the things, and have several friends who are owners. The cars with miles are usually far better cars than the ones that have few miles.

If your customer bought the car to show, he probably did well. If he plans on using it the way it should be used, he'll most likely need to budget more for "recommissioning". So your $495k($519750) turns into a $569750+ car easily. Most the owners on this thread can attest to that.
Not a lot of buyers want to ante up another 10% just to make a car useable. Parking their money, probably worse things to do than buying F40s. That alone will stabilize prices somewhat, slow the drop. But they are dropping.

 

Dear Sfumato:

Thank you for your summary of matters already known. You are correct that your input on a F40 market-related thread is completely irrelevant because neither do you have one for sale, nor are you a prospective buyer - this by your own declaration. There is no pomposity here - just straight talk, and from what I hear from my clients, its much appreciated. Dont worry about my sales, considering the economy, Im pleasantly surprised. Your random comment that "they are dropping" is about as meaningless as anything can be, such as it lacks any quantification whatsoever, and is doubly redundant in terms of being rather common knowledge wouldn't you say?

At any rate, thanks for the input, useful or otherwise.
.

 

Dearest Joe:
All that fancy used car dealer straight talk.
You misrepresented the 12k mile car as poorly maintained.
Your sale car was a garage queen.
You tried to pass off a reference to a bull market thread to bolster your position that values aren't falling.
Most people don't know when they're pompous. I was in err. You're just condescending. Thanks for making my point for me.
I won't sleep more than 7-8 hours a night worrying about your sales. I will however, need to consider how rude bastards get people to give them commissions, when there are nice brokers about.
Glad you admit to clients. If they or any prospective clients read any of the disrespectful BS you sling about this forum towards those "beneath your sales level", they'd walk.
Just think WWBND.
GTG, trailer park is locking up.
S

 

Mr. Mato,

I should have consulted your advice prior to my purchase of a delivery miles 1989 F-40 in October of 2008. The price was somewhat north of fair, bordering on the edge of unbridled speculation and teetering on the precipice of outright robbery...but I wanted it. Disclosure due: the car was not brokered, or sold by anyone participating in, on or with this internet forum.

I purchased the vehicle with the knowledge that it would need a considerable amount of time and money to render it worthy of both road and drive; I'd set aside a sum of my children's lunch money to bring the vehicle to the road, as it were.

What I wasn't prepared for was the service intervals this vehicle requires, and the amount of catching up to do required of my mechanic and my cheque beuque.

You see, Ferrari recommends a great deal of service every three years...belts, fluids, brake pads, hoses, gas tanks....a litany of procedures and parts, all of which add up to a tremendous outlay of cash.

Brave in my knowledge of policies, procedures and price, I sent the car to a specialist (no one on, in or with this forum) to affect these replacements. Much to my surprise, I found out that the $35,000 USD I had just spent to replace all these items needed to be done again because of the service intervals, of which, this vehicle had gotten 1 (on my dime) but now required 6 more services to bring it current as per the manual (service to be done at 3 year intervals or X miles). The automobile required no less than SEVEN full services, and my mechanic did one full service starting from the vehicle's build date and pro-rated each service working backwards from 2009 to 1989.

These vehicles require an insane amount of money to maintain...and those chariots without fire require far, far more money. I spent $250,000 USD on regular service alone just for this delivery miles F-40.

I haven't driven the automobile, as I have now been informed by my mechanic that 20 years' worth of manufacturers bulletins need to be performed on the vehicle, and that some of these bulletins supplant, supersede or replace some of the new parts now installed on my automatic carriage.

...there goes another $150K USD or better.

 

Expensive stuff, but on the upside you have a delivery miles F40! - Congratulations!

 

Well Said!!!!

 

Correct.

 

Funny stuff, but your point is well taken.

When good examples become $180k cars, we will have to consider the car free and the purchase price a maintenance reimbursement. LOL.