348 348 Parts Thread

The Kia Crank Sensors come at a very attractive price, however I would hesitate to use them. I looked up the specs in the Airtex website. The 1990 Volvo 760's sensor is the exact same Bosch part that our cars came with. The Airtex equivalent is an 5S1914 that is specified to have a resistance between 413-688 ohms. The Kia's sensor is used in a 2000 Sephia with a 1.8 l engine and is an Airtex 5S1814. That one is specified to have a resistance between 675-1125 ohms. I suppose that you could buy a pair and check the resistance. If they were less than 688 ohms, then no harm, but that seems pretty unlikely.

On the other hand, I have no clue how the higher resistance could affect your ECUs. If I had to guess, I would guess that they would not harm the ECUs as a higher resistance should only mean that less current flows. Still the end result is hard to predict without knowing the exact functioning of the sensor in the circuitry. Even if no harm comes to the ECU, the higher resistance could be decreased functionality, either from new or down the road as the magnet gets weaker. (That is what I assume is the wear factor in these devices.) Course at that price you could replace them every year, while my Volvo style ones would have to last 6 years to break even. Still, any risk of damage to the ECU is scary.

Has anyone been using the Kia style for long?

BTW you test the resistance by measuring as shown in this diagram.
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You're right mate, no worries.

Interesting mate, I personally dont think there would be an issue with them.

3forty8 has been using them for a few months now without any issues.

 

If you don't already have the specialized tool for making up Amp connectors, talk to Dave Helms, he has much better tools than what Eagle Day sells. His crimper will peform both double crimps in one step, and his extractor tool works great tool. I have been using them this week and they are real time savers. Also, he has sourced a much tighter fitting rubber boot cover too, I just replaced some of my Eagle Day ones even though they are less than one year old, water was leaking past, as they are not as tight fitting as they could be.

http://www.****************.com/

Sorry for the sales pitch, but I have really been impressed with these recently.

 

Don't apologize - that's good info. I've been looking for the single-step double crimper for a year now - I was beginning to think they were a myth!!

 

Going on 4 months now. No change in performance / no error codes for crank sensors. In my opinion (I'm not an electrical engineer) I don't see how they could damage an ECU with a different resistance value - otherwise our ECU's would be at risk anytime a sensor begins to fail and provides a value outside of the expected range.

 

Version 3 of my Voith Dampener is going in next week. I have identified a number of failure points, and also an inexpensive grease that seems in the short time V.2 was operational to be just as good as Kluber. Right now I am waiting for my order of the *correct* o-rings to seal the through bolts.

If all goes as expected, I am thinking of putting together a very inexpensive but *complete* voith dampener rebuild kit to sell through maybe through a couple of the parts guys. Here's the pitch: What's worse than having a noisy Voith Dampening Flywheel, and having to take it off the car, clean out all the nasty grease, re-grease it and put it all back together?

A: Doing all that and having it still be noisy!! Get the complete kit and do it right the first time. Sounds good?

That is what I went through twice now, but I am firmly on the trail of success with taming this beast. Well, I am pretty sure anyway...

More to be said next week when the O-rings get in...

 

Hey guys! I've got a 1994 Sera Blue Spider that I love dearly. Recently, the back-mounted seatbelt retractors aren't retracting worth a darn. Not cool. Does anyone have suggestions about possible replacement seatbelt mechanisms that aren't $1500 a piece? Thanks for the info and I thoroughly enjoy this site.

Chip

 

Gee....there is no problem with these if you just pack them with kluber and replace the triple seals the factory way. It ain't a great design but it works unless your plastic parts have gotten dry and worn out then no amount of fudging is going to get them to stop rattling. Then you may as well weld the unit to a single piece and be done with it. I can't see where you might be having so many problems unless you got lots of wear or lots of leaking past your triple seals. Also make sure your rattle is not fooling you into thinking it is the clutch when the clutch shaft and exhaust system is right there and has fooled many a mechanic. Put a mechanic stethscope on it.

 

Send them to Ssnake Oyl, they couldn't rebuild mine but sourced a very close like replacement, re-webbed and took the nose off mine, looks factory. Turn around two weeks and three hundred for both.... They do great work and no issues with the units. You can reach them at http://www.ssnake-oyl.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CONTACTUS.

They also can re-web in other colors to match or contrast the color of the car.

 

My dampener's guts *were* damaged by the previous owner's neglect, then his mechanic (using the word loosely ), repacked the thing in the minimal manner. That didn't work. I am 90% certain that the mechanic's failure to quiet the dampener combined with the job he did on the major that resulted in an engine that leaks more oil than it burns were the items that motivated the previous owner to sell the car. Lucky me.

I have subsequently repacked it twice to no avail. I don't want to weld it yet. I like a challenge. I am pretty sure that I have *now* figured out what all the issues are, but I will know for sure next week. I have improved the standard installation of the triple seals by incorporating "helper" O-rings that keep the Teflon from getting "compressed" like my last set, although that process was accelerated by the other issues in my dampener that I had not yet diagnosed. With a correctly functioning dampener and the helper O-rings, I expect the triple seals to last a very long time. Also, I am 90% certain that I have indeed found a suitable replacement for Kluber that does not cost an arm and a leg. Slick 50 will not work. Redline will not work. Superior Industries CI123, a very high tech grease, will not work. They all lack stiffness and will cause the hot starting problem.

More will be revealed

 

I was looking around for some relays and found these guys: http://terminalsupplyco.com/Store/Default.aspx?CAT=EC070010#Categories

The ones that are used on a 348/t are the 332 019 151, 332 209 151, and the 332 019 150. Their price on the 209 151 is $5.99 ea. and I bet the others are the same price.

There is one other one, a 332 015 006 (this may not be on 348s) that they don't carry. Parts Geek has it for $10.95.

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/YN/D6521-BOS-P2020.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_term=86+1986+Saab+900+Relay+Bosch+Saab+Relay+DOHC&utm_content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base

Now, about those AMP Junior Timer connectors that Eagle Day sells for $25. AMP is now a division of Tyco Electronics. I spent some time on their site tonight and found lots of listings for the two position, 3 position, weather sealed, etc. etc. When you find what you are looking for you click a link to look up "availability". The company that seems more or less on the ball is Master Distributors. http://www.masterdistributors.com/ordering/productdetail.cfm?pr=2851893 This is a link to their listing of the 3 position connector for ........................................................... $1.51!!!

Now that is without the rubber boot and terminals, so you might have pay another 50 cents for some terminals, but sheesh! You probably should buy your boot from Dave at Rampante anyway, although I will call Master tomorrow to see what they have. Amp makes a first class crimp tool, and I will see about that too. I know that Terminal Supply carries it although I don't have a price yet.

 

I was just looking again at Tyco's website. I think that the rubber boots are obsolete. Apparently what AMP wants you to do is crimp a little rubber seal in with each wire. Here is a picture of the process from Terminal Supply's website. The connectors are different, but the drawing on AMP - Tyco's website looked identical as far as how the "seal" was crimped on. My take is that the smart thing to do is to use the little seals and then put a rubber boot on just for looks. Then you don't have to worry about the boot sealing well or not.
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Awesome find - thanks!

 

Thanks for pursuing these options!

 

Here is a prime example of why I don't post most of my mods on this site. I spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to thoroughly engineer and test an upgrade/modification. Since this is a business investment(i.e. how I put food on my table) should I then post it here so somebody can copy or undercut my price?????????

If someone like Dave Helms is working on a project like these connectors/boot kits, am I going to rob him of all his research engineering and testing time to publicly offer my piss-ant 2cents worth because I stayed in a Holiday Inn for one night...or spent a couple of hours on the computer?? Give me a break.....I will not disrespect a valued part of this community who has more than paid their dues and puts alot of expertise to come up with reliable tested and well engineered mods for these cars.

How about coming up with an original idea of your own and investing more in it other than computer gazing.....maybe then you'll gain some respect in this forum and people will buy your newly developed product.

My hat goes off to all those in this forum who have developed an original product or service for these cars......if we continue to be cheap copy cats these guys will stop contributing for our gain.

 

Bruce, you are hugely over-reacting!

1. Dave Helms is capable of defending himself and his interests. Please allow him that dignity.

2. All I did was point out where one could buy the plastic connector for a reasonable price. I said, "You probably should buy your boot from Dave at Rampante." Yes, I also said that I would see if Master sells them for less than Eagle Day's ridiculous charge of $25, but that was before I discovered that the boots appear to have been superseded by AMP.

3. We are talking about a ficken tiny little piece of rubber, not a new cylinder head or trick intake manifold. I doubt that Dave has done anything much with this other then a bit of research himself. Do you think he had molds made or something? Get real.

4. And besides, the information that I provided about the rubber plugs is from the manufacturer of the of the connector. If they have introduced improved procedures/parts, shouldn't I share that information with the board? Well, shouldn't I?

FYI, I myself am in the process of developing two items that I hope to market: a service kit for the Voith dampener and an exhaust system. Do I have an expectation that I have even a 50-50 chance that either my developments will pan out as something of value or that someone else won't copy them and undercut me or that my target customers won't simply duplicate my research and analysis for themselves or that I won't end up simply posting up plans and information here on the board and give the work away? No I do not. I know that it is highly unlikely that I will ever sell anything to anybody. I am doing the work for the love of the car, the process of improvement, and to contribute back to the community that has given me much valuable assistance. Anything of a commercial nature that may occur is pure gravy and totally *not* expected. Even if I ever do end up selling something like that, I would be totally thrilled if I merely broke even. If I want to make a living wrenching Ferraris, I know what to do, the same thing Dave did: rent a shop, buy a bunch of tools, and get busy fixing people's cars. Thinking that I am going to be some reincarnation of Carlo Abarth or Ugo Zagato would be silly.

Dave Helms runs what is to my knowledge a very successful Ferrari service business. I think that it is very unlikely that his sales of rubber connector boots to anyone outside of his repair customers in Boulder is anything but a favor he does for the community. A community that returns the favor by providing recommendations of his bread and butter enterprise. Let's keep things in perspective here, shall we? Peace!

 

Dave's solution is the cats-ass solution (gold connectors, perfect fittings, etc). It's a total package solution(which I will someday have). I will use the stuff mentioned in this thread as a temporary means to get by (non-perfect fitting, etc) until my f-budget allows for products such as Dave offers.

BTW - as an example of the above, you can buy all the female 3-pin timer connectors you want but you will not find the proper v-shaped male mates to these (the ones that suprisingly come on the kia crank sensors). Therefore: you have to jerry-rig your setup effecting appearance and possibly performance/reliabiility.

 

I don't understand what you are saying: the correct male connector comes on any and all of the crank sensors, and other devices also. Why would you buy one when the connector is already present, attached at the factory? What gets jury-rigged?

If you are concerned about the reliability of any of these terminal attachments, I would suggest that you replace them with "Sealed" terminals. The supplied AMP connectors are merely "Splash Proof". There are lots terminals available that have superior weather resistant characteristics. The Packard brand's Weather Pack line carried by Terminal Supply looks particularly well engineered to me. If you use sealed terminals and the contacts are treated with Stabilant or DeOxit, I don't think gold contacts would provide any significant advantage. If the gold contacts are housed in the Splash Proof connectors, I would expect better performance from the sealed connectors with regular contacts.

Personally I have not had any issues with the Splash Proof connectors after treating the contacts with DeOxit. The thing I am going to try next is applying DeOxit shield to provide long term protection.

 

Hey and another thing for Bruce: What mods are you talking about that earn your living with? How do you sell them? I would imagine at some point you have to reveal what it is you are proposing to sell somebody, no? What's to prevent somebody from, at that point going, "Thanks, I'll get back to you." and then going off and duplicating whatever it is you showed them? Or do you require cash up front? OK, let me see if I have this straight: you sell stuff, but you advertise it without giving any details, and you make your customers pay in advance for these marvels. Then once it, whatever it is, is installed, if they are not impressed or don't like it, too bad? Hell of a marketing strategy. If you can make it work, you have my respect!

 

The problem with most 348 connectors is that the male part gets hairline cracks from repeated hot-cold phases and a poorly designed clamping system (ie. the cam phase sensor and the crank sensor). So, to save these otherwise perfectly functioning components (with the exception of the connector) you need to get the male part that has the same mould so it will fit in the clamp. These male connectors are not avalible so you end up jury-rigging an alternate (close) male connector that sacrifices good fit. Thats all I was saying. I personally think its great that you have been sharing your finds and I don't think Big-D would mind either...

 

OK, now I see what you mean. I never saw this, but maybe where you are it gets that cold to cause the cracks. If that happened to mine, I'd just shave down the plastic some to make some room inside the clamp and then seal the cracks with a nice bit of silicone rubber sealer. I think that when I do my major and have the engine out of the car, I will re-do this whole set up. I don't like having those connectors down by the road anyway. I will set things up so that I splice an extension into my crank sensors and then plug them in somewhere higher up using the sealed connectors. Either that or redo the clamp so that I can use the sealed connectors in the oe location. Not sure, but when the engine's out, I'll come up with something.

I bet that those Airtex crank sensors I bought will last another 20 years any way, so wiring them in permanently is no big deal. The magnets in those guys seemed way stronger than the ones in the Bosch sensors I removed.

 

....I hope this fits somewhat here. I wanted an X-ost for my '90 348. My local source wanted $3500. Daytona Auto in Canada
was less than $2300. Significant savings......if you want/need one.

 

I think that's exactly the kind of information that should be posted. Good find!

 

The rubber boots are not obsolete! There are two styles of Amp Junior Timer connectors. Some use the little rubber sleeves you picture, and some do not. Regardless, both use the rubber connector boot. If you use Dave Helms tighter fitting, more durable boot, you can simply skip the rubber sleeves, since you are duplicating your effort there.

My 355 used an Amp Junior Timer connector at the crank sensor that had both the rubber seal/sleeve and the rubber boot. When I rebuilt it with new gold connectors and boot, I went ahead and reused the seals, but it really seems unnecessary. If I had the oem crappy boots, or even the Eagle Day ones (I have ED boots on my fuel injectors) I would definitely use the rubber seals, as the ED and oem boots do not seal nearly as tightly.

 

Troy,
You mention that the male connectors are not available, not sure if you have seen my post in http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228857&page=2

I am sure Daves gold connectors would be better, but these are seem ok and not really a jerry rig set up.
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As posted before the plugs on my crank angle sensors and cam sensor have gone to s**t so have got replacement 3 pin male connectors and changed the plugs on all of them.

The replacements plug up no problem to the Ferrari harness, but the only slight difficulty is that the OEM plugs are a moulded on plug without a rubber grommet so the clamp plate is not a great fit on the replacement plugs. Since the photos were taken I have put a cable tie on the clamp and it looks ok.

The rubber grommet is a bit tight on the crank angle sensor wire but a bit of Inox makes it slide on ok, I have put a cable tie on the cable end but it probably is not necessary.

The factory terminals do fit the new plug but are a bit loose on the clips so I recommend using the correct terminals.

The plugs have numbers AMP 1-962 581-1 BMW 1732584 so I assume these are cross's for AMP & BMW so you may be able to track them down from there?

I got mine from Connect Source here in West Australia
Email: [email protected]
Item no
2-963745-1 Timer Male L/p Terminals $0.50ea
BT402 3 way junior timer boot $4.50ea
1-96258-1 3W HSG $3.78ea

Each plug, boot & 3 terminals are AU$9.78 + gst (10%) + postage

I still think the Kia sensor should be ok, but if your problem is just the plug this may be another option.
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