NASCAR men earning as well as most F1 drivers

You take the leap from leaving a track because it wouldn't update to the needs of NASCAR to

and you say I'm blinded?

Then you state how NASCAR is doing what it should yada yada yada. And I'm the one who said the problems were similar. And the rules aren't

that's F1. NASCAR changes the rules over the years and the teams follow the rules. F1 has debates of whether or not the champion for the year deserves the crown. Who do you think "manipulates" the rules in NASCAR?

Yeah I'm the one that can't be reasoned with, I watch both series' and don't engage in stereotyping the opposing side, I also don't embellish negative points about a series I have no interest in just to make F1 seem great.

 

I must say, you seem blinded by the issues with nascar and angered with the problems in F1. All the points I expressed are facts in regard to nascar. You choose to ignore fact to make your opinion valid. It is obvious you love Nascar unconditionally. That's wonderful. As I stated earlier enjoy it as much as you can. But you must understand that the differences in both series are vast, and as your love of Nascar is unwavering, it does not mean that it is better or worse than F1 or any other series. You stated you watch both, but it seems in your eyes only F1 is troubled and Nascar is the end all be all of racing pleasure and excitement. When Nascar was a stock series, it was great. Now it seems to have changed with the times. Nothing wrong with that. If what they are doing is what they think is best for the series, then only time will tell if they are right. The same goes for F1. When too many things interfere with the racing, we are all losers. So with that, I will finish my writing by saying, it seems we argree to disagree in regard to the problems with each series. I will thouroughly enjoy this years F1 season thru thick and thin. I hope you find the same pleasure in Nascar. And like you, I am sure to have complaints this season about the series I enjoy most.

 

Why did Jimmy Johnson win 3 in a row? http://nascar.about.com/od/nextelcupdrivers/p/jjohnson.htm
"""Jimmie started off his rookie season with a bang starting the Daytona 500 on the pole. He hasn't looked back since.

His team is partially owned by Jeff Gordon who took Jimmie under his wing to help teach him the ropes of racing in NASCAR's premier division. In 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Jimmie has out shined his mentor by posting more wins and running higher in the Sprint Cup point standings.

Jimmie has proven that he has what it takes to dominate the sport. The only remaining question is how many more NASCAR Sprint Cup series championships can he win?"""

More talk from someone who just doesn't know what he's talking about.
1st place 185 points and 2nd place 170 points

Yes, early in the race team mates pass each other but not when they're fighting for position or for points at the end of the race and if F1 handed out points for laps lead the teams would do the same as it's common knowledge that team mates let each other pass for wins and other points paying positions so choose your battles, 5 points out of nearly 200 in NASCAR in the early stages of the race compared with allowing your team mate to collect wins and then blocking everyone so he can get away, really.

Hamilton, Raikkonen, Massa are the only people that had a chance at the title last year, 3 drivers. As for NASCAR and the bottom teams, many run limited amounts of races since NASCAR runs soo many races it takes a lot of start up cash to run an entire season but it's only a fraction of what small F1 teams need. Some NASCAR teams don't even have sponsors at the start of the season. Try that in F1. The teams in NASCAR merged last year because of the economy of the US. I bet the sand is fine but it looks odd when a head is buried in it.

 

You need to learn more about the sport you love. The point system for races is 175 for first, 170 for second. You get 5 points for leading a lap and 5 points for leading the most laps. So the winner has the chance at 185 points. He gets 175 plus 5 for leading a lap - `180. If the second place driver leads the most laps for the 5 additional bonus points he gets 170 for second 5 points for leading a lap, and 5 points for leading the most laps for a total of - 180. Same as the winner. You my friend need to get to learn what you are talking about.

 

I'm not angered with the issues of F1, I don't lose money, sleep or time with F1 it's annoying when the same issues crop up each year, get worse only to be left to fester. What "fact" did I ignore? The biased opinion of people who openly dislike NASCAR only to mention information which happens to be incorrect or random stereotypes? I don't love NASCAR it's merely a sport but since I defend NASCAR you associate that with love. That's odd. The F1 championship last year hanged in the balance because a driver was penalized for no reason other to make the final racing "interesting" that's a serious problem and more Like WWF than any other "sport" I can think of. We don't "agree to disagree" you and others posted misinformation, bias and insults {towards the fans, which had nothing to do with the sport other than to undermine the people who watch NASCAR, aimed at me I assume} and then you say we're at a stalemate. If one side refuses to admit fault, wrongdoing, a mistake or to change their view at all even to a slight degree, then I wouldn't call that a stalemate. I would call that an irrational mindset for a discussion.

If a person who steals a car, is caught, serves time, is released and then is asked "were you wrong?" chooses to say "no, I needed the car" or "the car wasn't damaged I just needed it for a day" is still wrong, their belief they did nothing wrong is completely wrong and irrelevant. The fact they can't see it doesn't negate it at all. This is the position most people are in from day to day. They speak just to talk. They believe they have a valid opinion and say words that are for the most part meaningless because they don't have first hand information or they don't grasp the basics of the topic. These people which are a great majority of the population also have an enormously difficult time admitting fault, wrongdoing and many can't bare to say "I don't know", whether it's pride or embarrassment I'm not sure but the mindset you have is quite common and shared among many people from many different countries. They also pick apart a response to reply to the few parts they can answer and leave the rest alone because they would be forced to concede or to simply say "I don't have enough knowledge to reply" and that is a simple task many can't perform. If you are not aware of this part of out society there's a good chance you're a part of the majority caught in this "head in the sand" mentality. How can soo many people be in debt? Can no one solve simple equations? No, it's because they refuse to see fact and refuse to admit they don't have the cash to make the purchases they want. It's the most basic equation, if you don't have 1 dollar, you can't spend 1 dollar but people feel they must belong and stand taller then their neighbor, that they must belong to a wise and important group, they'll destroy their lives trying to make this happen. If so many people will go bankrupt or further into debt because of this philosophy then you can see why so many people would choose to speak and reason this way. Speaking is free and it's a way of making ones self look and feel better even if they're deluding themselves.

 

You'll twist and squirm until there's nothing left to do huh?

http://www.ask.com/web?q=points+system&x=0&y=0&o=14112&l=dir

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/features/02/18/enterprise.maumann.evolution.points.system/index.html

http://www.nascar.com/news/features/points.system/index.html


[size=+2]In addition to the points allocated:

• Any driver who leads a lap during a race receives five bonus points.

• The driver who leads the most laps receives an additional five bonus points.[/size]


Race Points
Cup Series

Finish Points Finish Points Finish Points Finish Points Finish Points
1 185 11 130 21 100 31 70 41 40
2 170 12 127 22 97 32 67 42 37
3 165 13 124 23 94 33 64 43 34
4 160 14 121 24 91 34 61
5 155 15 118 25 88 35 58
6 150 16 115 26 85 36 55
7 146 17 112 27 82 37 52
8 142 18 109 28 79 38 49
9 138 19 106 29 76 39 46
10 134 20 103 30 73 40 43

After the first race of the year;
1 -- Matt Kenseth 190 Leader
2 -- Kevin Harvick 170 -20

Kenseth lead at least one lap, that was the final lap for the win. If Harvick lead a lap he would have 175 points. So where is your condescending tone now? Your head isn't in the sand anymore, it's under the crust of the earth.

Read;

 

*Pulling head out of sand*...


When you were younger, did you get beat up by rich kid who loved F1???


*Putting head back into sand*...

 

I've never lost a fight in my life, had a couple of close calls but no real damage. I have a feeling young people like you like to watch fights and pull for the bigger guy.

*At least you now know where you stand* that's more of a head start than most people.

 

For entertainment purposes...I guess I'll throw ya a bone...

...in your opinion.
Now that I can belive.

Once again, you're incorrect...not surprising, however it is nice to know at least you're consistent.
I don't pull for anyone in a fight. They're both obviously too insecure about what they either don't know or what they can't do that they have to resort to fighting to try and hide their insecurities. All the while, those who do know can see right through the "display of power".

Thank you. I do always try to learn from others though...even if it's what not to do.

Ah yes, if only a statement could act as a mirror...

 

Do you always repeat what's said to you? Your posts come across as "I know you are but what am I?"

 

Trust me, I can completely understand how someone like you would think that.

You make it too easy and fun...when the material is as classic as your posts, why not repeat what's been said.


Well, as entertaining as this has been for me and for others...I must retire and go place my head back in the sand.


Until next time,

The c _ _ _ d.

 

Well said, I'm sick of hearing people comment for the sake of commenting.

 

Is it not also true that what you complain about the most, you have the hardest time with yourself?

 

I truly don't think anything relating to the human brain is that simple. A lot of people will repeat or make up one liners to simplify a train of though or to come off as wise when in reality after the phrase is boiled down it makes little or no sense. People like saying sound bites, for some reason people find them popular and feel better when saying them like they're Confucius or some form of intellectual genius.

 

40 years ago it was much, much less of a problem, people had some self respect and didn't embarrass themselves at every opportunity that arose. The old words of wisdom like "children should be seen and not heard" had merit. People didn't want to hear every random idea that popped into peoples heads and children are much more likely to do this more than anyone because of the lack of control and everything is new to a child, so they can get excited or overwhelmed very easily and don't have the social skills to know when it's appropriate to voice their opinions. That's why children can get mad sometimes when adults don't pay attention to them. They feel like they can contribute to a conversation and believe they are being serious and focused but adults can't filter out this rare occurrence from the child in contrast to the usual noise they make. That's usually when parents hear the "you're not listening to me" and then the foot stomp out of the room.

 

For what its worth 62 250 GTO I'm in your corner.
One fellow I know used to race Formula Fords. He tried a Modified stock car race once and was hooked. Different level of competition, maybe not with as many dynamic varibles as a road racer but the COMPETITION level was much more. Thats what he was in it for. Eventually he went Pro. He now calls Road Racers the "Wine and Cheese crowd".

I may have to try this roundy-round stuff.

 

There are a ton of ovals in North America, some are tiny but some are huge! It'll be fun for you.

 

I did the TMS stock car "school";

http://www.teamtexas.com/programs.htm

I also have absolutely no allusions ( delusions ? ) that this was racing or a proper driving School.

 

Wow, the 80 lap program is about 30 bucks a lap, hell of a bargain!

 

I never said that.

Techinically its a pass, no denying that but the racing is just so simplyfied (barring the odd 'road race' track they drive on once or twice). turn left. go straight, turn left a bit more. go straight again. therefore my argument is there is less SKILL involved driving a NASCAR and overtaking others because all what you need to do is line up behind one car, draft for a bit and overtake him. then a little while later the guy you just overtook will overtake you again.

Well I beg to differ.

 

NASCAR is like drag racing. It is taking a very very limited skillset and refining it to a very high degree. In drag racing, it is all about being able to launch the car and being able to shift quickly (on the drivers part). In NASCAR it is all about knowing when it's time to draft someone (knowing that once you pull up you lose your draft, and once you pass they can draft you). There really isn't much skill involved in knowing about traction and how hard you can push in turns, because they are all one big pack and are rolling around the track together... you just stick with the pack.

It is laughable to compare the skill level of NASCAR (or drag racing, for that matter) with F1 driving. F1 is about being able to do lots of different things and do them well, not taking one or two things and taking them to a very high degree of skill. If you want to be a good F1 driver, you have to be a good braker, and good at starting, and good at high-speed turns, and good at passing, and good at protecting your position, and good at tire management, and good and lots and lots of other things. There are some drivers who are very good at one thing (like Massa is very good in a fast car out front), but suck at other things (like rain driving), and then there are drivers who are good all around (like Schumi).

Most of the offspring of big names in F1 do pretty badly, because unless you have "it", you're going to be a mid-pack driver. Examples would be Villeneuve (who IMO got lucky with a car that was way way quicker that one year), Senna, Piquet, etc. In NASCAR, if you have the right backing, you can do very well even if you don't have some innate skill. Look at the father/son teams who do very well in NASCAR.. we're supposed to believe the kids just have "it" the way the dads do? Statistically impossible.... it's because it is possible to breach the highest ranks of NASCAR without some high level of innate skill, but it is not possible to do so in F1. That's just how it is.


And I have nothing specifically against NASCAR. I've driven stock cars in anger at speed on banked ovals. It does take major balls. I am also a relatively accomplished drag racer and would argue the level of skill required with anyone who thinks it's somehow "easy" (the folks who think NASCAR or drag racing area easy and anyone can do it are those that have never done it, or never done it successfully). But I have absolutely no doubt that if you took a group of people and trained them and put them in the best equipment, that over some amount of time you could develop a winning NASCAR driver, and a winning drag racer, but you could not develop a winning F1 driver, unless that person already had "that extra something" that is required to be great.

Period.

 

IMHO...In some cases, yes. Such as a "wannabe" elitist. They attack and complain about others who differ from they're beliefs, trying to make themselves feel like the better person. The "wannabe" will scorn others for the exact same things that they themselves are displaying. Most everyone will notice this except for the "wannabe". The "wannabe" elitist will try to discredit those who use simple explanations.."sound bites" if you will...by attempting to give long winded explanations as an attempt to sound more important and more credible than others. However, a simple explanation or "sound bite" makes more sense than all the paragraphs of explanation the "wannabe" can think of. Trust me, it drives 'em crazy.
Most individuals simply just need to step back out of the way in a conversation with a "wannabe". The "wannabe's" have a knack for tripping themselves up just fine on they're own without much help from others. Unfortunately for the "wannabe's", they'll most likely never admit it. IMO, if the "wannabe's" would just simply look at the situation form the others point of view, regardless if they think it's wrong or not, I think they might find that discussions can actually be constructive...and heaven forbid they may actually learn something! The same goes for both parties though. I know I have fallen victim to before closing my mind towards another. Good thing I'm still "young" though and able to work on things to hopefully better myself. I'm very thankful I'm not too "old and set in my ways"...or better yet, a curmudgeon

I'm sure there will be some who will rip this post apart...maybe even you. That's fine with me. More for me to possibly learn I guess. These are just my thoughts an opinions from experience.

If you chose to respond to this post you'll have to yell pretty loud though...my head will be buried in the sand.

 

Aha I was awaiting your views on this topic Mike Thanks...

 

As usual you have the definitive answer.