F40 rear air fence?

Amazing.

I think I would have to change my underwear if it hit the brakes and the front end didn't bite.

This just goes to show how good (and courageous) drivers can be at speed.

 

That's why the J-car proto went to the pointy nose immediately, and the 906 had the canards as did the P cars about same time.
BTW, Jim, do your front rotors like some heat before stopping from serious speeds? Mine seem to. I also cooked the fluid in the master on a hot soak waiting for a road crew. Did fine until about 8-9 miles later when heat progressed down lines. Soft pedal with CCB's was special, fortunately I always leave margins. Fluid got milky, changed it. Not happened again, didn't improve after driving slowly either. FNA called it "driver error" Another reason F1 boxes a good thing, but I was already in correct gear for the corner. What fluids Sal pouring in those things? You use them on street too, so a good all-round fluid helpful for posing

 

Those guys were something else. Many of the cars they drove were very fragile. The idea of driving them at night in the rain at speed is pretty wild. They drove these cars more in 24 hours than some garage queens have been driven in 20 years.

The reason I like The Historic Targa Florio so much is that it enables you to feel what it was like at a speed you feel comfortable with. After traveling those roads you develop great respect for the drivers you mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIkJOqv_d4Q


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eRsxElf1p0

 

Basically compared to your car these cars have no brakes. It is the single most important thing to remember when driving them.

They are light J6 2300 lbs.,0846 1850 lbs., Dino Compitizone 1500 lbs., 002C 1300 lbs., but their brakes are very weak. If you rely on them in 002C in the mountains you won't make it. You have to downshift and with straight cut non syncro gears shifting with your left hand that's not as easy as with an F1 as you've said. You also have to watch the oil PSI. On the curves it goes to zero. You have to let it build back before you stand on it. I'll ask Sal but in the old guys I think we use standard brake fluids and we do watch them to keep them from boiling.

For my Meg's 57 I did beef up the brakes a bit.

Best
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I remember vividly. Windage trays found their way into several of the old cars.
I meant the P, I wondered if you used the factory fill brake fluid, or had changed it. I probably should ask Enzo drivers too, but they won't have the hot soak master cylinder issue the 599 has, and few use them how I do . It was a 12mi long ridge, mostly 3-4th gear, 120's-40's-110's, with a posted 10 that I take at 8. Hot soak was at end, I sat there, was only car, and after 8-10 minutes said screw it and went back up the pass. Road crew did hear me coming for about 6-7 minutes . Pretty funny the weak point of CCB is the fluid. The master in the P/Enzo is up front, yes?

 

Ah

Yes. We're using the normal Enzo Brake Fluid. We are using zero PSI water coolant. (Evans) Remember we're 450 lbs. lighter than an Enzo which makes a big difference for the brakes. Our hottest track day was in Bahrain at the F1 Track. Track Temperature was 115 F. We did a lot of laps and Paolo, Jacky Ickx, and Nick Mason did some hotter ones. The brakes seemed to hold up but by the end of the day the oil temp. wasn't coming down. When we got home we took a ton of very fine sand out of the radiators, coolers and filters. We also changed the brake pads after Bahrain about 3K miles from new but those were hard miles and included a lot of track miles and the Historic Targa. We changed brake fluid as a precaution. We were aware of heat soak and did two cool down laps before pulling back into the pits.

 

In the train station parking lot I noticed fences on many road cars as Lee pointed out. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Ford, MB, BMW,
several SUV's, etc. all have fences like the photo I posted of the one on the SUV.

This is posted elsewhere but a section of it touches on Dino Competizione's wings and aerodynamic characteristics for those who may be interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ARMn1DK22k

 

599XX.

Note somethings we've been talking about. Fence on spoiler, Winglet on wing, Mirrors as foils to tune out wing tip vorticies, Front Fence/Dam.

http://www.asphalte.ch/Events/GVA09/Ferrari/Ferrari_01.html

 

i love the little winglets on the c post of the 599fxx! the front fenders, just behind the front wheels, are very interesting as well. i wonder why there is the break on the top of the bottom vent under the shield (i know its hard to explain)

 

Yes. That cut on the 599XX tunes the flow through the front brakes and wheel wells. The brake rotor cover/ducts influence the optimum shape. Note similar shape on P 4/5 and similar mirror stalk airfoils.
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yes i understand why there is an opening (great pic by the way) but what i dont understand is why there is a gap (green circle) almost like it is a flap rather than a vent. man this is so hard to explain in words but so simple in my head.
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jim i gotta tell you, you have really sparked an obsession with aerodynamics for me. i mean i am on a rampage as of yet, i just find it so cool how you can use the wind to your advantage ,as oposed to being used against you, by switching around a few things here and there. its truly fascinating! another thing i noticed on the p4/5 is how the vent from behind the front wheels (in green) is almost continuous to the vent before the rear wheels. did you notice an improved airflow pattern in doing so or was this just aesthetics?
also what does that say in the blue i cant make it out.
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Several thoughts. Note how on P 4/5 the inside of the vent is curved inwards to smooth the flow vs the angled 599XX vent. In the wind tunnel the angling was probably found to work with the shape of the 599XX as our shape was determined to work with P 4/5. Also note that the angled "winglet" in your green circle also sticks out from the side of the car which wouldn't be allowed on a street car as it would be a pedestrian hazard.

The Blue is the photo's copyright.

 

The whole inner surface of that vent is a very carefully designed surface/arc to smooth the flow through the front and rear brakes.

 

The ultimate poseur car.

 

lol. his absence after being proved wrong is comical.

 

Needs to Sack up.
This may attract him back to this little thread

I'm very interested in the motor mods in the FXX.
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FXX aero is very interesting and active. (Fans)

Press release

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"While based on the 599 GTB Fiorano with the same transaxle layout and engine type, this prototype is an extreme track car. Ferrari's engineers have carried out extensive work on the engine's combustion chambers and inlet and exhaust tracts. These modifications, combined with the fact that internal attrition has been reduced and the maximum revs have been boosted to 9,000 rpm, helped achieve the target power output of 700 hp at 9,000 rpm. Particular attention was also paid to cutting the weight of the engine unit components. This was achieved both by optimising forms - as in the new crankshaft - and adopting exclusive materials, as in the carbon-fibre used for the intake plenums. A new gearbox shift strategy cuts overall gearchange times to 60 ms.

The 599XX is characterised by an innovative electronic concept called the "High Performance Dynamic Concept" which has been designed to get the maximum performance from the car by managing the combination of the car's mechanical limits with the potential of its electronic controls. The mechanical and electronic systems work together to get the maximum performance from the car under extreme high performance driving, for consistent lap times. The sporty handling has been improved thanks to the adoption of second generation SCM suspension system. Track usage is also made easier thanks to the new "virtual car engineer", a screen in the car that provides a real-time indication of the vehicle's efficiency.

The 599XX's aerodynamics were honed in numerous wind tunnel test sessions with the result that the car now boasts 280 kg of downforce at 200 km/h (630 kg at 300 km/h). The front underside of the body is completely faired-in and the vents that channel hot air from the engine bay have been moved to the bonnet.

The "Actiflow" system increases downforce and/or cuts drag depending on the car's trim cornering conditions, courtesy of the use of a porous material in the diffuser and two fans in the boot which channel the air flow from under the car out through two grilles next to the tail-lights. Winglets have been added to the rear buttresses to increase downforce. while synthetic jets have also been incorporated into the rear of the car to control and smooth the air flow and to reduce drag.
Ferrari's engineers have also used F1-derived "doughnuts" which partly cover the brake discs and wheel rim. These have the dual function of improving both aerodynamics and brake cooling.

In terms of the bodywork, composites and carbon-fibre have been widely used and the engineers drew on their experience in working with aluminium to reach the weight target. The development of increasingly high-performance materials has also benefited the carbon-ceramic material braking system. The brake pads are now made from carbon-fibre which means that the calipers are smaller whilst guaranteeing the same efficiency. The new racing carbon ceramic braking system also delivers shorter braking distances and is generally more efficient due to the weight saving.

The 599XX comes with slick tyres (29/67 R19 Front and 31/71 R19 Rear) specifically developed to maximise stability in cornering and increase lateral acceleration. They are fitted to 19 x 11J wheel rims at the front and 19 x 12J at the rear."

Very cool fence and Luggage box on Chaparal 2D

http://www.sportscardigest.com/archives/3177

 

Proved wrong? Are you kidding me? In your opinion!

Maybe you cant read, and have been distracted by the haze of off-topic meanderings of this thread, upon the byways of aerodynamics, cars & crafts of all makes, plumes & vortices, etc ad nauseum, but here is the reality of Scott.Mac's F40-specific inquiry:

*"What is the purpose of the rear raised fence that some owners have added to the F40 bodywork above the rear grill which spans the width of the car?"*

He was specifically asking about street F40s, not LMs, nor about all those makes & models under sun as discussed in this thread so far! He was specifically asking about street F40s whose owners have "added" the bolt-on fence. He was not asking about other cars.

Whats comical about the fences I have seen on street F40s in the USA including the one on the Sheehan car is they aren't even adjustable, which was their point in development by Michelotto for the LM in the first place!!! They are simply screwed-on, which defeats their purpose!

If you were a bit more objective, you'd have found out that the F40 LM for which these so-called fences were designed, achieves a very high top gear speed of in excess of 220 mph, and on the long straightaways, Michelotto found in testing that an adjustable flap was very useful in generating some vortex to aid rear stability. In fact, it is strictly a very high-speed application. Hence my point that it is NOT an application for a street F40. Its a competition application.

No wonder I think street F40s with this device added by their owners are being posed in, whilst being driven on the street. I have to assume that the owners of those 'fenced' F40s are observing speed limits to some degree! No? Or are they going 200mph on the street? Tell me honesty - if in fact you have driven an F40 extensively as I have - what meaningful and appreciative effect do you think an air fence will have in order to make a real difference to driving at 45mph? Or at 65mph? I mean, Cmon! If you believe it makes a difference at rational and legal speeds on the street, thats fine, I respect that. But guess what? I dont.

I will make just one concession, and that is IF the car is being used on a track that affords very high-speeds, then this device is useful to a degree. For example, the only time I have felt anything less than planted in one of my F40s was on the big oval at a track-day at California Speedway years ago, where, quite frankly, you can go as fast as the car will go. Once you come off such a track, a device such as an air-fence is useless on an F40, IMHO. Thats my opinion. You may choose to differ. You can crow till the cows come home in contrary opinion, but thats mine, Im comfortable with it, and Im sticking to it. Thats precisely why my response to Scott.Macs's question as repeated above for your clarification was:

*"Standard application for all F40LMs, useless for the road"*

Ergo, its useful at great speeds on an F40LM on the old Mulsanne straight in competition, but when I take my wife down to San Juan Capistrano on Sunday in our street F40, if an air-fence was affixed to it, my conclusion is summed up in the words of the great Angel Cordero jr when asked why he never touched 'Spend A Buck' with the whip: "It don't do nothing!"

"Standard application for all F40LMs, useless for the road", thats my position and my answer to Scott.Mac's question. If you feel better I will add: "IMHO", OK?
Respect my thoughts, and I will respect yours. I'm not saying you're wrong if you think my street F40 would benefit from an air-fence. I'm saying I don't think it does.

Lastly, I have a guiding light as a method to my madness. I believe in Ferrari SpA and what they have produced. I believe in what they develop & build for us, especially the Supercars for the street. I accept them, deficiencies, warts and all. I change very little, safe in the knowledge that they have spent millions & millions developing them to maximum road effect, even far in excess of our legal speed limits. After all my street F40 will get at least 195mph given enough road. But come now, pray show me the air-fence on the F40 that Ferrari SpA delivered to me? Where is the air-fence that Ferrari SpA thought it needs? Surely if Ferrari SpA felt an air-fence was necessary on their 200mph street Supercar, guess what? They have put one there!! It must have been there ... but maybe it fell off all these F40s imaged below!
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Your arrogance knows no limits...tell me, do you have a lap top station in your F40 so you can type and drive at the same time ?

 

Dont be an idiot, as you always are. Keep the discussion on point, and not personal.

The one person who decided to be a jerk and make personal attacks isnt here anymore. See Sfumato: Banned User.

Now get back to your patients and don't keep them waiting any longer than they have to because you are making personal attacks on a Ferrari car website!

 

Scott:

I don't think that anyone who has put an air-fence on a street F40 (the subject of this thread) has quantified anything. If they have, they can post it here and Im always willing to be open-minded and learn...

On the other hand, I do believe Michelotto has some data about the air-fences they have put on the competizione F40 LMs expected to achieve in excess of 200mph on straights. If anyone has that, we would love to see that also.

 

The irony and hypocrisy in your post is hysterical. The only reason sfumato was banned was because he called you out and you went crying to the mods about being "stalked"....the heat in the kitchen can be unbearable at times. You can dish it out, but obviously can't take it....the fact that Sfumato is no longer here probably explains why you felt it was safe to dip you toes back in here.