Newbie - Steering Wheel Junkie

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. Too many choices as to which forum to choose, so I went with the old cars. I don't have a Ferrari, and at this point with current financial trends, doesn't look as if I ever will. Are the members of these forums mostly Ferrari owners, or are dreamers present here too?

Anyway, for now my primary interest is in the wonderful old wood rimmed steering wheels. I do have fairly good knowledge of the wheels and some history, but I'm hoping I might learn more from members of this group. From my research, it appears that Nardi was the builder of the vast majority of Ferrari steering wheels from immediately after WW2 up until the year of his death in 1966. Does anyone know of any other suppliers during those years?

Thanks much.

Woodrim

 

Welcome! There are owners and dreamers, but basically just Ferrari lovers here. Hope you will share your knowledge, and you should be impressed with the expertise available here.

 

Thanks, Ferranki. I will certainly be happy to share all I know about the old steering wheels. I was hoping there might be some old-timers here that could add to my knowledge, but will be happy to talk about the wheels with anyone that doesn't fall asleep.

woodrim

 

MOMO supplied wheels

 

Ha!!! Someone took the bait ;-) I had heard Momo mentioned several times, but they were not involved until the late sixties; they didn't make any of the early wood rimmed wheels. Momo became a player for the race cars and leather rimmed era. This was after Nardi was dismissed by Ferrari. Walsall Wheels of England made the wood rimmed wheels starting sometime in 1966. Leather rims took over in 1968.

Woodrim

 

Welcome to Fchat woodrim.
I have an old Walsall wheel that is a mystery. I got it in trade from a BMW guy many years ago. He had adapted the old wheel to fit a 530 turbo project and the new owner wanted the OEM wheel. He did a quicky varnish job, which is obvious on the back side. This wheel is 17" diameter and has one tone wood. (no stripe) It does have finger grips on the back.
Let's see how good you are.............. ( ha ha)
thanks,
Jon

What's it worth?

Are you saying that Walsall was an OEM supplier to Ferrari from 1966 to 1968?
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G,day all,sticking my neck out and my oar in..may I suggest the change may have happened when FIAT took over much of the car production.When looking for a pre Fiat Ferrari I looked at a 69 365GT2+2(Nardi)and a 71 365GTC(Momo).I think you.ll find that the Daytona,s and 206,246 Dino and the Fiat Dino also had Momo.My 73,365GT42+2 has a Momo,the 330 of course has a Nardi ..perhaps it was political??

 

Known by very few alleged Ferrari experts. 100% correct. Have seen several - mostly 66 into 67. Momo are first seen on 68 365gt2+2's and 69 365GTC's.

Thank you for your accurate information.

 

Hello Jon, thanks for the welcome. Yes, Walsall supplied wheels to Ferrari starting in 1966 when the old man had a spat of some sort with Enrico Nardi. That was also the year Nardi died. At first glance, the Walsall wheels look similar to the Nardi steering wheels (both were solid spoke), but the Walsalls didn't have the black stripe. Additionally, the Walsall spokes had an "engraved" pattern that was likely pressed into the spoke. The days of true guillochet (type of pattern engraving) were over. 1967 looked to be exclusively Walsall, but from what I've observed, in 1968 leather rimmed wheels started to take over. That's when I stopped paying attention. It was also around that time that Momo came into existence.

The Walsall wheel you have is unusual in that it's 17". I don't recall seeing one that size before. I would be very interested in seeing the reverse side with the indents - that will tell me something. It looks like it has a slight dish too. The BMW center did not come with the wheel. The Walsalls of that type were aftermarket and the center opening and bolt pattern were standard. Walsall was also the maker of the Les Leston line of steering wheels, identified by the LL stamping on a spoke. Most of the wheels of the style of yours were marketed by Leston and they were popular on British cars and even Porsche 356. As for the value, hmmmm, what would you take?

woodrim

 

When speaking of these wheels and their makers, especially when mentioning Momo, it's helpful to mention whether wood or leather.

woodrim

 

Two I like.

Momo also covered some 1967 race car steering wheels in rubber.
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woodrim,

Here's a few more pics to help you out.
The offset is 1.25" to the mounting surface.
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1955 - the "nubby" heights projecting from the back of the wheel are very inconsistent. lovingly hand made

first pic by Ken Visser
2 and 3 - Ed Warburton
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many 275's and 330's(ie 330 gts) have momo wood wheels. the momo is stamped on the back of the 6 o'clock spoke.
ed

 

Jon: Thanks again for the pictures. My guess is that your wheel is a relatively early Walsall. I say that without knowing exactly when Walsall started making wheels, but I think probably the early sixties. Getting back to youe earlier question about value, it would depend on how well the wheel was matched to an application. Those wheels will always have much greater value when paired with an original boss. Beyond that, value will be greatly influenced by marque of car. Alone, the wheel should get $400-$600. The high mark - with an original boss for the right marque, $1200?

woodrim

 

Edward: Again, it would be helpful if you specified wood or leather rimmed. Another thing to keep in mind is that people may have changed wheels at some point during their ownership. Although I don't know the exact date, I believe Momo came into existence after the 275 and 330 models did, but there could have been some overlap. To my knowledge, the earlier of those models got Nardi wood wheels and the others got Walsall. Momo started by providing fatter rimmed steering wheels to the race cars. At that time, the drivers who liked them were switching out original wheels. If you can provide a picture of an early Momo on any 275 or 330 it would be helpful. If you're talking about leather rimmed wheels, I won't be able to add much as I don't pay any attention to them.

woodrim

 

Bryanp: Thanks for those great pictures. The "lovingly inconsistent" raised dowel grips on the reverse - or at least on that wheel may be more the result of a restoration. The rim does look to have been restored. Although a lot of what I say is conjecture, it's also based on a good deal of knowledge and experience. When the wheel was made, the pegs were likely evened out reasonably well after initial installation, just before the ends were rounded. The dowels, or pegs, started falling out of the wheels after a few decades; the hyde glue used back then wasn't up to today's glue standards. Some of the other pegs might have loosened during the restoration. If the restorer removed the pegs and didn't document which holes they came from, he may have run into trouble when putting them back in. Of course I don't mean to say this sort of thing would have happened to me ;-) The holes for the pegs may or may not have all been drilled the same depth, and the pegs weren't necessarily inserted all the way in. This all resulted in the actual pegs being of different lengths - not at all an issue while in their original positions. But, if reinserted during a restoration without strict attention, they might result in noticeably uneven elevations.

woodrim

 

Sorry, Edward, I just saw that you did indicate wood. I seriously doubt it, but if you can provide a picture or two it might help.

woodrim

 

woodrim,
Thanks for your comments and estimate. My particular wheel was part of a $500 deal for an old BMW and parts, so I guess I did all right.
Sadly, the mystery of origin still remains for the time being. I would think the rarity (oddity?) of being a 17" dia. wheel might narrow the field a bit.
If you do figure out what this wheel came off of, please give me a shout.
Looking forward to seeing more interesting wheels in this thread,
Jon

What diameters are most common on the older Ferrari cars?

 

Jon: Remember, Walsall made the wheels for no specific car. The made adapter bosses for many cars. From there you might just think of which cars were most likely suitable for a slightly dished 17" wheel. Some that come to mind are XK 120-150, saloons, MAYBE 356 B&C, ...

The older the car/steering wheel, the larger the diameter. I focus mostly on 1950-late sixties, the Nardi years. Unlike the Brits, they used a strange measurement system called metric. Those wheels were mostly 420mm and some 400mm; an occasional small one at 390mm later on.

woodrim

 

we've owned the car since 1960; the only restoration was a light sand and application of tongue oil. No pegs have fallen out on our watch (49 years)

 

Oh.

 

Bryanp:

1968 365GT2+2
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
1960 MGA 1600
Mini Cooper S

Odd bed fellows, huh? Do you have this wheel on your MGA ?
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no, but I covet it every time I open the Moss catalog. Do you think the repros sold by Moss are up to snuff?

 

No, Bryanp, the Moto-Lita version sold by Moss is highly inaccurate. The original wheels were made by Bluemel's only for factory issue. They started out with segmented mahogany rims like the one in the picture, then changed to barrel wound beech. The mahogany represent the majority of those produced. Moto-Lita makes a beech version, but the rim is too fat and shaped incorrectly, spokes are off a bit, boss is shaped wrong, and so on. The one in the picture is a replica of much better quality. I'll email you off line with details.

woodrim